Kneejerk Bombas
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Can anyone link me to splicing and/or technical data for the fly?
The Fly
- Thread starter Tim Gardner
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NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
Fly Splice
Mike and Tom-
It WAS Lance who I spoke with, and I understand he is a fellow Wisconsinite.
Regarding Fly Splice Directions, I asked Lance and he said they don't have them available for the public yet (as they are still perfecting it.) I will try to contact him and see what I can find.
love
nick
Mike and Tom-
It WAS Lance who I spoke with, and I understand he is a fellow Wisconsinite.
Regarding Fly Splice Directions, I asked Lance and he said they don't have them available for the public yet (as they are still perfecting it.) I will try to contact him and see what I can find.
love
nick
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
For Lance, do a e-yellow page search , areacode 414, tree service, Wallace tree something or other. It's his Dad's landscare maint. company.
Kneejerk Bombas
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www.lancerigging.com
Do you guys see the popularity of the fly as a trend towards the use of kernmantle type ropes, constructed like rock climbers ropes?
It seems that the fly, if used without a friction saver, would probably wear quite quickly. Once the thin sheath gets a snag or breaks through in a spot or two, that's the end of the rope.
In the old days, a few guys tried mountaneering ropes and found some advantages, but wear was definately not one of them. Now with friction savers and lockjacks, the ropes last a long time, which opens up the possiblity of kernmantle ropes like the fly to be use for tree work.
Another thing I see as a possible advancement is going to be the use of smaller ropes. Now that the 1/2" size limit is gone, why not go to 11mm? Why not 9mm? Why haul around all that heavy line?
While we are talking about it, how about going to more static rope? Put a screamer on your rope guide, and add that "give" to the slip of the lockjack above about 1000 lb.s(or whatever) load and you seem to have quite a bit of dynamic release, if you will. Plus we don't have much slack in our systems to start with and would be more likely to take a swing, where fall factor would not have much to do with rope stretch.
I think our ropes are about to take an evolutionary step soon.
Do you guys see the popularity of the fly as a trend towards the use of kernmantle type ropes, constructed like rock climbers ropes?
It seems that the fly, if used without a friction saver, would probably wear quite quickly. Once the thin sheath gets a snag or breaks through in a spot or two, that's the end of the rope.
In the old days, a few guys tried mountaneering ropes and found some advantages, but wear was definately not one of them. Now with friction savers and lockjacks, the ropes last a long time, which opens up the possiblity of kernmantle ropes like the fly to be use for tree work.
Another thing I see as a possible advancement is going to be the use of smaller ropes. Now that the 1/2" size limit is gone, why not go to 11mm? Why not 9mm? Why haul around all that heavy line?
While we are talking about it, how about going to more static rope? Put a screamer on your rope guide, and add that "give" to the slip of the lockjack above about 1000 lb.s(or whatever) load and you seem to have quite a bit of dynamic release, if you will. Plus we don't have much slack in our systems to start with and would be more likely to take a swing, where fall factor would not have much to do with rope stretch.
I think our ropes are about to take an evolutionary step soon.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
I have been climbing with static rope (not rock) on and off for over 7 years. I have found the benefits of static far outweigh the risks. I prefer 7/16” rope over 1/2 “. The only time I use anything smaller in diameter is 3/8” for foot locking. Anything under 7/16” for climbing seems way too dangerous. There is not much material to cut through. Larger diameter ropes will give more reaction time before being cut. This is why I am so interested in The Fly. It sounds like it is more suited for tree climbing.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Why do you cut your rope?
And if you do, aren't you double tied? Or did you cut that rope already?
And if you do, aren't you double tied? Or did you cut that rope already?
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
very funny mike.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Kidding aside, what makes 11mm the ideal size?
Because it takes longer to cut through, can't be the answer.
Why not 9mm?
Is the "EVOLUTION" moving towards this black ops style rig?? Thinner lines? http://www.neropes.com/maxim_climbing/default.htm
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
The sheath on the Fly isn't as thin as on mountaineering rope. It should hold up better to treework than dynamic mountaineering ropes. Even those have pretty tough sheaths. Dragging and grinding over rocks is pretty hard on them.
11 mm seems to be a good size. Easy enough to grip. I'm guessing that in order to get the working load up to where people seem to be comfortable, they had to make the rope that size. I don't know that for sure though.
Tim,
How do you tie yourself into the rope? What rope are you climbing on?
Tom
11 mm seems to be a good size. Easy enough to grip. I'm guessing that in order to get the working load up to where people seem to be comfortable, they had to make the rope that size. I don't know that for sure though.
Tim,
How do you tie yourself into the rope? What rope are you climbing on?
Tom
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
I use an eye splice and I think my last few ropes were made by Wellington. It reminds me of the static rope Sherrill sells (page 5 of the 2002 catalog) it has 4 tracers instead of 2. I use them for pull lines when I retire them from climbing. I have not been able to pull the eye splices out with a truck or Bobcat.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
Originally posted by TREETX
Is the "EVOLUTION" moving towards this black ops style rig?? Thinner lines? http://www.neropes.com/maxim_climbing/default.htm
That Tech Cord is cool. I use it for my VT (5k test).
As soon as I can find a place to buy the 1/8" I will not have to buy any more starter ropes. 
As usual, I'm coming in late on a discussion of a lot of good points about skinny rope. Here is a picture of use of small diameter line in a recreational situation, that is not covered by ANSI. Due to bulk, half inch rope does not work in this single rope technique (SRT) application because it is a 400' length, carried across steep country and hoisted with a throwline over 150'-200' high limbs. But we're here to talk about arborists.
The authorities feel arborists should read Z133. It mandates 1/2" rope with the exception that smaller diameter rope may be used in SRT techniques and in climbing situations when it can be demonstrated that it doesn't pose a hazard to the climber. It also requires the rope to be a minimum 5,000 lb. test.
The split references in the two categories--standards & definitions, and the distinction between Standard Operating Procedure and exceptions, make it harder for me to absorb. I do need to catch up on the intent & letter of the law.
My state's OSHA organization has adopted ANSI, making it, in effect, a law. My job is to comply, in my opinion, not whine about someone else telling me about how to do my job. The ANSI committees are not someone else, the members are arborists who have stepped up to the plate, while I go steppin' out. I thank them for tackling this task for our safety & productivity.
I was a tech for the last two ITCC competitions: in Milwaukee on the Belayed Speed Climb, and here in Seattle on the Throwline events. This limited experience has given me a glimpse of the role of the governing bodies. The interaction of these two committees (ANSI & ITCC) seems to have a tremendous cumulative impact on what happens out in the field.
With the introduction of 'FLY' rope, things will be heating up in regard to use of smaller diameter rope by arborists. This was illustrated at the post gear-inspection meeting of the ITCC committee in Seattle. The discussion centered around Mark Chisholm's use of Fly rope. I didn't understand how the distinction of its use in the qualifying events was made from its use in the Masters Challenge. Or how rope-type restriction in the footlock or aerial rescue event would encourage homogeniety among the competitors scores.
A point was made that it was Mark alone that was using Fly; it may have been a fairness issue since it may have been a prototype, rather than a production item, and therefore, unavailable to the other climbers. The reference to it meeting the specifications of ANSI was moot--the ITCC committee stated their decision to approve or reject a tool supercedes that of ANSI for the purposes of the competition.
The manufacturers specs say specifically that it is designed for arborists use in particular. The entire manufacturers statement was read at this meeting for clarity (so it would be entered into the minutes of the meeting, I spose). This last criteria seemed to be what became the crux-that the manufacturer would assume the ultimate product liability, since it has deeper pockets than the ISA.
One other official regulation that may provide some insight into the relationship between grip strength and rope diameter is that of the timber sports sanctioning body, the U. S. Axeman's Association. The lanyard used in the pole climb event must be of a very large diameter (at least 7/8", with a steel core), for the purpose of the hand being able to grip it. Can you imagine how cumbersome our lives would be if we had to use fatter ropes, not thinner?
Arboreally yours,
The authorities feel arborists should read Z133. It mandates 1/2" rope with the exception that smaller diameter rope may be used in SRT techniques and in climbing situations when it can be demonstrated that it doesn't pose a hazard to the climber. It also requires the rope to be a minimum 5,000 lb. test.
The split references in the two categories--standards & definitions, and the distinction between Standard Operating Procedure and exceptions, make it harder for me to absorb. I do need to catch up on the intent & letter of the law.
My state's OSHA organization has adopted ANSI, making it, in effect, a law. My job is to comply, in my opinion, not whine about someone else telling me about how to do my job. The ANSI committees are not someone else, the members are arborists who have stepped up to the plate, while I go steppin' out. I thank them for tackling this task for our safety & productivity.
I was a tech for the last two ITCC competitions: in Milwaukee on the Belayed Speed Climb, and here in Seattle on the Throwline events. This limited experience has given me a glimpse of the role of the governing bodies. The interaction of these two committees (ANSI & ITCC) seems to have a tremendous cumulative impact on what happens out in the field.
With the introduction of 'FLY' rope, things will be heating up in regard to use of smaller diameter rope by arborists. This was illustrated at the post gear-inspection meeting of the ITCC committee in Seattle. The discussion centered around Mark Chisholm's use of Fly rope. I didn't understand how the distinction of its use in the qualifying events was made from its use in the Masters Challenge. Or how rope-type restriction in the footlock or aerial rescue event would encourage homogeniety among the competitors scores.
A point was made that it was Mark alone that was using Fly; it may have been a fairness issue since it may have been a prototype, rather than a production item, and therefore, unavailable to the other climbers. The reference to it meeting the specifications of ANSI was moot--the ITCC committee stated their decision to approve or reject a tool supercedes that of ANSI for the purposes of the competition.
The manufacturers specs say specifically that it is designed for arborists use in particular. The entire manufacturers statement was read at this meeting for clarity (so it would be entered into the minutes of the meeting, I spose). This last criteria seemed to be what became the crux-that the manufacturer would assume the ultimate product liability, since it has deeper pockets than the ISA.
One other official regulation that may provide some insight into the relationship between grip strength and rope diameter is that of the timber sports sanctioning body, the U. S. Axeman's Association. The lanyard used in the pole climb event must be of a very large diameter (at least 7/8", with a steel core), for the purpose of the hand being able to grip it. Can you imagine how cumbersome our lives would be if we had to use fatter ropes, not thinner?
Arboreally yours,
Frans
ArboristSite Operative
I am told today that their are different clutch plates available that can be installed in the (now old style) Lock Jack sports that make it work for smaller dia. ropes (such as the fly)
frans
frans
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Here's a pic of Mark Chisholm, Big John Grier standing just to his left, the side of Rob Thigpen's face just on the other side of that coffe cup (blue jacket), and the fly.
God Bless,
Daniel
God Bless,
Daniel
