thoughts on my chains

[skindaddy]

some pics of my chains for some thoughts, opinions what you see.
the cross cut pics they are decent and cut ok but whatever i do it never feels close to the feeling of putting on a brand new chain. i do know the crosscut chain has its rakers a little to low for the strength of my saw got a little carried away that day.

the ripping chain, again i know my saw is not huge by any means but it seems to still really struggle with my mill, even if its a softer wood i have to get after it with the arm strength pushing hard esp with red oak.

sorry shoulda cleaned better didnt notice until blown up on my computer

ripping pics first

 

[skindaddy]

cross cut pics

 

[BobL]

OK when I measure this in Photoshop I get a raker angle - the line in red relative to the bar top - of 4.6º
This is too shallow and will result in a lot of dust and not much chips and you will have to get it to push t cut.
Are you sure you are zero the digital angle finder to the top of the bar immediately under the cutter you are measuring?
What are you milling and with what sort of saw - that will give me an aide what you should be aiming for
Then the top plate cutting angle (blue line TPCA see https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...nts-tips-and-tricks.93458/page-6#post-4107285) is too high (its near vertical) and needs to come down substantially ( at least to 50º) so that the profile has more of a hook see my chain below.
TPCA is not the same the TPFA (the typical 10º used for milling chain) its another thing, look closely at the link listed above - its the one of the angles you set on your grinder. What are you using?
Finally your raker top is WAAAAY to flat and needs to be rounded over substantial. See all the crap sticking the front of the raker - it just fell off on a little pile in front of it - that should no be there. the almost square end of the front of the raker will be digging into the wood and binding the saw.


This one has an angle of about 8.1º
This is find for softwoods but you could also be using the same angle for your ripping chain in the same wood
TPFA is still too high and needs to come down and raker is still too flat topped.

Have a look at these.
Top one is Will Malloff's cutter and bottom one is mine
Note" much more hook on the Top plate Filing angle and much more rounded or sloped rakers.
The highest part of the raker should be close to the back of the raker (newest the cutter tip) and the front of the raker well rounded over.

 

[skindaddy]

id better check the wixey angle again i might have not done right,
saw is husqvarna 460 3/8" pitch .058" these are both 24" chains, mostly my crosscut is 18" though. milling i have mostly red oak right now
hand touch up is 7/32" file
i forgot to write down what my oregon 511ax grinder settings i believe grinder angle is 60 down 10 if i remember, if the blue line needs more angle does that mean i need to go lower * number ie meaning 50*
also the settings i have i started using after calling oregon for help with using machine is where they came from(for crosscut) . should i still use the down 10 setting on machine too??
ripping chain is or was 10*
wow clearly screwed up the rakers , my first priority!
thank you for the help and time

 

[BobL]

id better check the wixey angle again i might have not done right,
saw is husqvarna 460 3/8" pitch .058" these are both 24" chains, mostly my crosscut is 18" though. milling i have mostly red oak right now hand touch up is 7/32" file

I reckon 7/32" is too large, I'd be using at least a 13/64" for milling
Another way to get a slightly lower TPCA is to use the same file size but in a smaller file holder/guide. I usually use a 13/64" in a 3/16" guide for 3/8 full comp.
By file holder/guide I mean one of these.

The result of using the same file size but in a smaller file holder/guide is it forces the file slightly lower relative to the chain so that more of the curved topside of the file is used. This generates a slightly "pointier" cutter tip. This is important in generating a self feeding chain - mind you if you go too far with this, the chain will become grabby - but this effect can be finessed/reduced by raising the rakers a touch.

i forgot to write down what my oregon 511ax grinder settings i believe grinder angle is 60 down 10 if i remember, if the blue line needs more angle does that mean i need to go lower * number ie meaning 50*

Yeah I'd try 50.

also the settings i have i started using after calling oregon for help with using machine is where they came from(for crosscut) . should i still use the down 10 setting on machine too??
ripping chain is or was 10*

It probably doesn't matter much.

wow clearly screwed up the rakers , my first priority!

Yep - square or flat topped rakers effectively decrease the effectiveness of the TPCA. If you use flat top rakers - even if they are on a slope you have to further increase the TPCA. Remember the rakers actually penetrate or rock their way slightly into the wood - when they are flat topped they will not penetrate as far that if they are slightly rounded.

thank you for the help and time

No worries.

 

[skindaddy]

ok i will get on all this great info, and hopefully get my chains where they need to be, prob dont matter now with new info , but the settings for the 511ax for my chains were 60* down 10 for motor angle, and table angle is at 30* down 10, and tilt on the table is down 10.

 

[csmillingnoob]

I use the Husqvarna file guide with the built-in, progressive depth gauge to set my rakers. . I file all my rakers to that softwood gauge then round by eyeball. Works great for cross cutting, noodling and verticle milling. The rip chains are a bit "grabby" but I like that feel in general. ( it might slow me down a bit but wheels keep it from pulling the saw to hard against the edge.)

The softwood setting works excellently in red oak even milling. Works decently to good in pecan milling. Live Oak is killing me in horizontal milling. If I set aggressively to the softwoods setting my 390 tanks hard into the edge and bogs. Less aggressive softwood setting and it barely cuts. Can't seem to find a happy medium. I am probably going to cut a skip tooth 20 degree to try with the aggressive rakers.

BobL:

Do you know the depth measurements for the soft and hard settings on the Husqvarna ? I would like to find that"happy medium."

 

[skindaddy]

i sharpen my dads chain for a 16" stihl chainsaw i believe is a .325 chain crosscut only, should i sharpen the same way? except for file size of course! think using 3/16" for that one cant remember dont do those alot

 

[BobL]

I haven't used the husqvarna guide but if its made by a manufacturer its usually too wussy for a 390 and you can probably go considerably lower.

Do you know the depth measurements for the soft and hard settings on the Husqvarna ? I would like to find that"happy medium."

Too many variables - type and condition of power head, length of bar/chain, number of drive pins on sprocket, etc Also Hard and soft means very little .
My settings would not necessarily work for your setup.
You have to find the depth yourself for your setup.
Assuming everything else is set up right, take 3 swipes off each raker ad try it out - keep doing that until the saw grabs then take 5 swipes of your cutter and that's it.

If you post some photos like those above I may be able to recommend some improvements.