Timberline Sharpener

[Demonical]

I had issues with my chain wandering, and tried to sharpen it with my old Oregon sharpening jig. But I've lost the set screw, that sets the depth, so I couldn't get it. Just sharpening too deep down into the cup, not getting into the tooth at all. No good. Couldn't dress that chain at all, so bought a new chain.

After, I got to reviewing sharpening videos for something to do, and saw a video of the Timberline jig. It looked like something I had to try.

Today was the first time I used it.

Here's my thoughts: This is on a Stihl 038 Mag btw w 20" bar.

These chains are 3623-002-0072 33RS.

Which I think I already screwed up; I ordered the 7/32" carbide, and I think I needed a 13/64" ...

The first chain I did, was basically a brand new chain. Right or wrong on the cutter size, it seemed like it did a great job, of just basically touching up the edge. The teeth felt razor sharp, and required very light touch.

On the new chain, I'm saying there was no issues.

On the rough chain, not sure. I did a pass on every tooth, then adjusted the cutter depth, to take a bit more, and went around the bar again.
It sure did clear some metal off the chain!

I did not have time to feed it some wood, to see if I got that chain fixed. But I am quite interested to give it a go.

 

[Scablands]

Stihl chain is definitely 13/64". I have a Timberline, and it does a nice job for the price, but it can be a bit fussy with more worn or rocked chains. The smaller dia cutters are also extremely fragile, so it's not a great tool for small chains either.

No matter what, you'll need to use a pair of calipers to measure left and right cutter lengths when switching from one side to the other. It *should* cut them evenly just by switching sides, but that is not what happens with mine.

 

[deezlfan]

I bought one a month or two ago and have a few complaints that didn't seem to come up in all the threads I read before buying. The first thing I found is that you can not get good results using a used bar to mount the tool. Doing so just allows too much movement when the burr engages the cutter. The cutter is drawn toward the tool as you rotate the handle and it tilts the top of the cutter preventing proper sharpening. Worse still, that creates a different pattern on the right and left cutter. This is my attempt to illustrate what I am talking about. Rotating the burr pulls the tooth toward the tool. That skews the cutter off the centerline [Red Line] and tilts it to the right [Blue Line]. A used bar allows much more of this movement and I found it to be unacceptable. A new bar limits the movement to just the wear on the chain.

 

[deezlfan]

The second problem is that the mechanism that moves forward and back to adjust tooth length is not long enough to allow it to move forward enough for chains with short cutters. As you crank the mechanism out, it runs out of channel and that allows the holder to tip down toward the cutter causing a jam. This could have been prevented with just a little more length. Very disappointing. The adjustment screw [Blue] is also not captured in the main body of the tool and as the holder twists, the screw comes up out of the locating slot.

 

[deezlfan]

No matter what, you'll need to use a pair of calipers to measure left and right cutter lengths when switching from one side to the other. It *should* cut them evenly just by switching sides, but that is not what happens with mine.

I'm not so sure that even brand new chain has equal cutter lengths. But I agree, it would seem that the tool should produce equal lengths but it requires adjustment each time you switch sides.

 

[Demonical]

I'm not so sure that even brand new chain has equal cutter lengths. But I agree, it would seem that the tool should produce equal lengths but it requires adjustment each time you switch sides.

I did not make adjustments to mine. I believed it would produce the same angles if I left it the same.

Hmmm...

I had the general impression that this thing is great on a new chain, not so sure about an old chain, and I also think you could wear out quite a few carbides.

 

[heyduke]

I had issues with my chain wandering, and tried to sharpen it with my old Oregon sharpening jig. But I've lost the set screw, that sets the depth, so I couldn't get it. Just sharpening too deep down into the cup, not getting into the tooth at all. No good. Couldn't dress that chain at all, so bought a new chain.

After, I got to reviewing sharpening videos for something to do, and saw a video of the Timberline jig. It looked like something I had to try.

Today was the first time I used it.

Here's my thoughts: This is on a Stihl 038 Mag btw w 20" bar.

These chains are 3623-002-0072 33RS.

Which I think I already screwed up; I ordered the 7/32" carbide, and I think I needed a 13/64" ...

The first chain I did, was basically a brand new chain. Right or wrong on the cutter size, it seemed like it did a great job, of just basically touching up the edge. The teeth felt razor sharp, and required very light touch.

On the new chain, I'm saying there was no issues.

On the rough chain, not sure. I did a pass on every tooth, then adjusted the cutter depth, to take a bit more, and went around the bar again.
It sure did clear some metal off the chain!

I did not have time to feed it some wood, to see if I got that chain fixed. But I am quite interested to give it a go.

if you decide to use a timberline as your sharpener, it's a good idea to true up new chains with a couple of light passes. after that the cutter will fit the teeth exactly and you won't have to cut very much if the chain is undamaged. i like to have a cool one after work and go over the chain (s) i used that day. if a chain is damaged you really should grind it first. if the teeth are more than half worn, you may not want to bother with the timberline. it will cut into the aluminum chain stop, though it will still work. a few of the guys here claim that they have proven that a skillfully filed chain is sharper, i have never seen it. the timberline, used properly, will make your chain sharper than new. some hombres here complain that timberlines are no good because they won't lower depth gauges but that's true of round files and grinders too. i maintain depth gauges with an oregon type grinder, 1/4" wheel, dressed flat but at an angle. i can sharpen a 72dl chain and hit the depth gauges in the time it takes to finish an ipa.

here's a recent example:





the chain type is oregon vanguard. a low kickback chain that has wide depth gauges that take forever with a file. notice that i used a grinder to lower the gullets for improved chip ejection. the cutter was a 13/64" though i normally use a 7/32" on oregon chains.

good luck. go slow. tighten the stop against the fat part of the cutter, not the taper. if you try to cut too much in one pass you will damage your $20 cutter. keep the center knob tight. keep an extra cutter on hand. hope this helps.

The second problem is that the mechanism that moves forward and back to adjust tooth length is not long enough to allow it to move forward enough for chains with short cutters. As you crank the mechanism out, it runs out of channel and that allows the holder to tip down toward the cutter causing a jam. This could have been prevented with just a little more length. Very disappointing. The adjustment screw [Blue] is also not captured in the main body of the tool and as the holder twists, the screw comes up out of the locating slot.

I think your stop is mis-positioned. it should be pushing against the back of the cutter like a chisel on wood. if you advance your chain correctly (in the direction of chain travel) after each tooth it will fall into place. it looks like you may be moving your chain ass-first. the slide should be about an inch further back. if i get down to my shop today, i'll try to get a picture.

 

[heyduke]

I'm not so sure that even brand new chain has equal cutter lengths. But I agree, it would seem that the tool should produce equal lengths but it requires adjustment each time you switch sides.

my experience with new oregon chains is that there are usually one or two cutters that are shorter or longer. if they are short, ignore them. they'll catch up next time. if longer, bring them back to the same length as the others.

 

[heyduke]

I did not make adjustments to mine. I believed it would produce the same angles if I left it the same.

Hmmm...

I had the general impression that this thing is great on a new chain, not so sure about an old chain, and I also think you could wear out quite a few carbides.

the timberline will keep your chain better than new if you take care of it. the carbide cutters will last a long time if you use them correctly. the ones for lo-pro chain will break if you try to cut too much in one pass. any of them will break if you drop them. so will grinding wheels.

 

[Scablands]

I did not make adjustments to mine. I believed it would produce the same angles if I left it the same.

Hmmm...

I had the general impression that this thing is great on a new chain, not so sure about an old chain, and I also think you could wear out quite a few carbides.

The problem isn't wearing out the cutters, it's wearing out the bushings. The way it works, it's hard to keep the chips out of the bushings. I think the sharpener performs well, but it really needs bronze or steel bushings - which would, of course, up the price towards that of a low-end grinder.

 

[heyduke]

The second problem is that the mechanism that moves forward and back to adjust tooth length is not long enough to allow it to move forward enough for chains with short cutters. As you crank the mechanism out, it runs out of channel and that allows the holder to tip down toward the cutter causing a jam. This could have been prevented with just a little more length. Very disappointing. The adjustment screw [Blue] is also not captured in the main body of the tool and as the holder twists, the screw comes up out of the locating slot.

i was wrong. your stop is oriented correctly, maybe slightly high... might try grinding the gullets so that cutter sits lower ot maybe use a 13/64" carbide.

this is what mine looks like. sorry about the messy shop. you should've seen it before i cleaned up!


the vise isn't fastened to the bench and lets me move the saw to access the crank better.


here you can see how the carbide cuts into the stop after teeth get too short. it doesn't damage the part of the stop that contacts the chain.


these are the two grinders i use in conjunction with the timberline. the oregon 511 on the left is for grinding cutters. i use resinoid type wheels which keeps things cooler. the green one is a tractor supply oregon clone, $150. its mostly used for depth gauges and could be the subject of its own thread with a vid. i use a file-o-plate style depth gauge, sloped toward the front. sometimes i do it in one pass, height and angle at the same time. sometimes i do two passes, height first and then the ramped front of the gauge. either way it only takes a few minutes and is quite accurate.

 

[heyduke]

The problem isn't wearing out the cutters, it's wearing out the bushings. The way it works, it's hard to keep the chips out of the bushings. I think the sharpener performs well, but it really needs bronze or steel bushings - which would, of course, up the price towards that of a low-end grinder.

i've been using my timberline for about five years, still on the same set of 30 degree bushings. i just purchased my third set of carbides. and i use it a lot. new bushings, stops and other parts are available at https://www.timberlinesharpener.com/ . its a great company to deal with. they get your order out same day and it's in your mail a couple of days later. i think that most of their customer base is firefighters who don't have access to grinders while at work.

 

[Demonical]

the timberline will keep your chain better than new if you take care of it. the carbide cutters will last a long time if you use them correctly. the ones for lo-pro chain will break if you try to cut too much in one pass. any of them will break if you drop them. so will grinding wheels.

I used a light mineral oil (meant for lubricating air tools) in the bushing. Gave it a drop every so many teeth. That seemed to work pretty good.

I did find the fine shavings wanting to get into the bushing, so I also gave it periodic shots of brake cleaner, to rinse that away.

I know I was taking too big of a cut... my bad.

I need to buy some more carbides next chance I get.

 

[heyduke]

I used a light mineral oil (meant for lubricating air tools) in the bushing. Gave it a drop every so many teeth. That seemed to work pretty good.

I did find the fine shavings wanting to get into the bushing, so I also gave it periodic shots of brake cleaner, to rinse that away.

I know I was taking too big of a cut... my bad.

I need to buy some more carbides next chance I get.

once your chain has been sharpened by the timberline and the teeth have the correct shape, you don't have to take off much metal. i just blow everything down (with good eye protection) after i finish. i figure the aluminum bushings are at least a little self-lubing and oil makes the chips stick in the bushings. brake cleaner sounds like a good idea.

the best way i've found to keep from cutting too heavily is to tighten the stop against the upper, fat part of the carbide instead of down on the taper. take multiple passes and take your time. once you screw up your carbide is toast. take it easy and they last for years.

 

[deezlfan]

Your stop is oriented correctly, maybe slightly high... might try grinding the gullets so that cutter sits lower ot maybe use a 13/64" carbide.

Stop height is dictated by the correct orientation of the tool on the bar. My unit is set up for .325 and 3/8 lo/pro so I am using a 3/16" carbide. I would think going to 13/64" would be going in the wrong direction.

 

[heyduke]

Stop height is dictated by the correct orientation of the tool on the bar. My unit is set up for .325 and 3/8 lo/pro so I am using a 3/16" carbide. I would think going to 13/64" would be going in the wrong direction.

my bad, that's correct. i don't use .325, but 3/16" would be correct for that chain. it would be too big for lo-pro, which i do use for my top handles.

i'm still looking at your fotos. your stop just doesn't look quite right. the "angle of the dangle" seems wrong. i hope you can get it working right, or find another method that works. keep us in the loop.

 

[deezlfan]

Perhaps the 'angle of the dangle' changes with tooth length and which size chain you are sharpening?

 

[Demonical]

my bad, that's correct. i don't use .325, but 3/16" would be correct for that chain. it would be too big for lo-pro, which i do use for my top handles.

i'm still looking at your fotos. your stop just doesn't look quite right. the "angle of the dangle" seems wrong. i hope you can get it working right, or find another method that works. keep us in the loop.

Here's a question: since I used the 7/32" carbide, should I stick with it, or get the proper 13/64" carbide?

 

[heyduke]

Perhaps the 'angle of the dangle' changes with tooth length and which size chain you are sharpening?

i'm thinking it could be the distance between the top of the chain link and the chain stop pivot. my experience has been that you can lower the gullet a little so that the carbide sits lower and the tooth has more "hook," facilitating better self-feeding. could be we're over-thinking it though. just put the saw on your tailgate, tighten the chain and sharpen it...

 

[heyduke]

Here's a question: since I used the 7/32" carbide, should I stick with it, or get the proper 13/64" carbide?

i think the orthodox reply to this is: 7/32" for oregon 3/8" chain, 13/64" for stihl 3/8" chain, 3/16" for .325 chain and 5/32" for lo-pro. if your keep a mix of stihl and oregon 3/8" chain, i think it would be fine to simplify your tool box by just stocking 13/64". i think the only reason you need 13/64" is because some chain doesn't have adequate clearance between the cutter and depth gauges, when new. likewise, i suspect it would be fine to use 7/32" on stihl 3/8" chain, especially if you lower the gullet by 1/64" with file or grinder.

i've sharpened oregon chains with 7/32" carbides that i thought lacked adequate "hook," but they cut and self fed really well and spit out fat "corn flakes." i think its possible that cutters with a minimal "hook" may stay sharp longer, but it's hard to quantify and may differ with the species of wood. also, after a chain has been sharpened a number of times, the top of the plate is lower to the top of the chain link and a 13/64" or even a 3/16" carbide can be useful.