Trailer brakes question??

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

Sorry ,but you are incorrect in your assumption that boiling brake fluid is the only thing that causes brakes to fade.Any brake can fade if it is overheated.
Ever notice the runaway truck ramps on long steep grades?Well they are made for semi truck trailer combos,no brake fluid there,just compressed air.

With light duty vehicles, overheated brakes are a double whammy. I was thinking of light duty tow vehicles, not big rigs with air brakes. City people overheat their brakes because they don't know how to drive on winding mountain roads. I've seen overheated brake pads so hot such that smoke was pouring from them. I've seen logging rigs with water-cooled brakes pulled off to the side with the driver pouring more water into them. I sure don't want to meet a loaded logging truck headed downhill on a narrow one-lane road while I am headed uphill. Nothing seems to deter the econobox crazies from diving in front of big rigs. When my son (a firefighter-paramedic) was at the Donner Summit Fire Station, he rescued plenty of people from wrecked cars and trucks, but mostly big rigs.

 

[deeker]

Ever hear of down shifting???? You don't sound like a driver to me. Semi truck brake fluid????????

Air brakes come to mind.

 

[deeker]

Towing a trailer without electric trailer brakes is Russian Roulette.

I used to own a small, single axle, Apache Solid State Tent Trailer equipped with electric brakes. It had 520-12, Load Range C, wheels and tires on it. The GVWR on it was 1,500#. The electric brakes on it made noticeable improvements in driver confidence and in stopping distance.

One day I was driving along without incident, when all of a sudden I had to make an emergency stop. The electric brakes on that little trailer saved my vehicle from going off the road and being wrecked and they saved my sanity.

Current models of electric brake controllers, such as the Tekonsha Prodigy, are a vast improvement over the brake controllers of a few years ago. The Tekonsha Prodigy brake controller automatically levels itself and automatically adjusts the gain (or amount of braking) to compensate for uphill and downhill driving.

Electric trailer brakes are a great backup for when you experience brake fading on your tow vehicle. Should your trailer have more than one axle, make sure that all axles on your trailer have electric brakes.

A small lightweight trailer stopped your truck that outweighed it by...how much???? Physics....don't work somewhere here.

 

[ShoerFast]

Big thing here are arrestors , little trailers are little trailers, anything to make them safer with out giving the driver a blank sense of security is an improvement.

Engine brakes that cut off the exhaust and make the engine (diesel) a big air-pump is the way to go.

Banks makes one for most pick-me-ups, OTR's have them built into the engine valves to slow things down.

The real slower-downer is a huge generators mounted on the drive-axle, it loads the drive-tires making electric.

What is a sight to see is a OTR hit the arrest ramps along side some of the steeper hills here.

Deep pea-gravel off ramps made just for the novice that cooked there brakes, they sould come with port-a-pottys at the end of them to wipe up the aftermath.

 

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

A small lightweight trailer stopped your truck that outweighed it by...how much???? Physics....don't work somewhere here.

That was back in the early 80s when I bought a new S-10 pickup to save gas. It was a learning experience. The cab was too small, not enough payload, and too light in weight for good traction on dirt roads. I owned a full-size 3/4 ton before that. Even tried 3 full-size 1/2 tons. Went back to full-size 3/4 ton with 4wd and 8,660 GVWR after that.

With the exception of city slickers, flat-landers and econobox crazies, down shifting on steep down grades is a no brainer.

Speaking of the need for those runaway truck ramps, I talked to a fellow from Frazer Park who clocked a big rig heading down the Grapevine towards Bakersfield in excess of 128 MPH. I have seen big rigs on the Grapevine traveling in excess of 85 MPH during heavy snowstorms with poor visibility when other vehicles were losing traction at 25-45 MPH and pulling off of the road.

L.A. must be a mecca for crazies.

 

[KD57]

L.A. must be a mecca for crazies.

And when they move out, they move to Texas.

 

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

And when they move out, they move to Texas.

Like to Dallas?

 

[streeter]

I'm not selling the trailer.

Electric brakes and drums for one axle is a little over $200. Like I said, the pads are on the axles to mount the brakes to. We also ran the wire to the area of the trailer where the brakes would go when we wired it. It's wired with the round 7 prong plug.

I have to get a electric brake controller.

Put brakes on it. Cheap insurance for a peice of mind.

I travel a hill 6 days a week, @15.5 miles and hits 8% grade. I see atleast 2 semi's and alot of trucks/rv's in the runoffs and burned to the ground, cause of underbraking or over loading.

I would rather error on the side of saftey then ooppss. Fluids weight @ 8 lbs a gallon. Now, I do overload my truck hard, I am no angle:greenchainsaw:

 

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

Put brakes on it. Cheap insurance for a peice of mind.

I travel a hill 6 days a week, @15.5 miles and hits 8% grade. I see atleast 2 semi's and alot of trucks/rv's in the runoffs and burned to the ground, cause of underbraking or over loading.

I would rather error on the side of saftey then ooppss. Fluids weight @ 8 lbs a gallon. Now, I do overload my truck hard, I am no angle :greenchainsaw:

I live at Lake Nacimiento 15 miles from Paso Robles and experience the same type of driving. Our winding 2-lane road snakes over a steep grade having the nickname "Hell Hill". "Hell Hill" or Godfrey Grade will make you a firm believer in good vehicle and trailer brakes. Vehicles wrecked by running off of steep drop-offs are seen frequently. It would make me very happy to see all boat trailers and RVs staying on their side of the double yellow line.

I believe that a gallon of water weighs approx. 8.4# My 26' 5th wheel travel trailer has a 50 gal freshwater tank, a 40 gal gray water tank and a 35 gal black water tank. Do the math.

 

[Banshee]

I don't think you need brakes either. It's a full size truck pulling 3500 pounds.
Your truck is built with bigger brakes for the extra weight it tows/hauls. That little a weight I don't think is an thing to worry about.
You might go with better brakes shoes for the truck if you want the extra piece of mind.

How many here has haul 2 ricks or wood in their truck bed? What do you that weight? Especially if it was still green.

 

[Crofter]

weight added to the truck as body haul does not increase stopping distance the same as unbraked trailer weight. Two isssues here; brake fade from long hills or increased max brake application distance. 3500 lbs from an unbraked trailer will come close to doubling your stopping distance with a pickup. If someone panic brakes close in front of you, there are three choices, go around to the left if there is no traffic, hit him, or take the shoulder of the road. I have never rear ended anyone but I have taken the other two options and got lucky. That is not from having no trailer brakes but just the fact that the third of a second delay in air brakes lays the facts that a car can outbrake a truck and most certainly one with a trailer and no brakes on it. Lots of people get away with it for years!

 

[NYH1]

I'm going to put electric brakes on the front axle and see how they work. I'll go from there.
Thanks!

 

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

weight added to the truck as body haul does not increase stopping distance the same as unbraked trailer weight. Two isssues here; brake fade from long hills or increased max brake application distance. 3500 lbs from an unbraked trailer will come close to doubling your stopping distance with a pickup. If someone panic brakes close in front of you, there are three choices, go around to the left if there is no traffic, hit him, or take the shoulder of the road. I have never rear ended anyone but I have taken the other two options and got lucky. That is not from having no trailer brakes but just the fact that the third of a second delay in air brakes lays the facts that a car can outbrake a truck and most certainly one with a trailer and no brakes on it. Lots of people get away with it for years!

There are no exceptions to the Laws of Physics!

Consider the following from the California Commercial Driver Handbook:
Total Stopping Distance = Perception Distance + Reaction Distance + Braking Distance

Most states REQUIRE trailer brakes on ALL trailer axles. Cutting corners to save a dime is a gamble.

Think TOTAL STOPPING DISTANCE.

 

[Crofter]

One axle will help. You can only get braking power to the point the rubber skids; actually best just before lockup. Trailer brakes are a pain to balance and set for best effect. the newer brake actuators are a lot better in this respect. You dont want your trailer brakes (that you set for full load) to lock up empty as the trailer might try to pass you.

No doubt every one of us has seen drivers pulling trailers that have no idea what they are doing. I have seen old and feeble as well as young and foolish and all in between. It probably should require an additional test to pull anything over 1500 pounds but there is more rules than we can remember or laws the cops can enforce now! I just know what a sucking feeling it is knowing you are not going to get stopped. I live right at the bottom of a steep hill with a 90 intersection there. You wouldnt belive the combinations of vehicles I have seen wind up in the swamp there. One of the cutest was a large boat on a too short and tail heavy trailer that was lifting about three hundred pounds off the rear of the pickup pulling it. The rear wheels of the truck locked up and the anti lock brake system held off the front brakes to match and he just sailed in with virtually no braking action at all.

 

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

One axle will help. You can only get braking power to the point the rubber skids; actually best just before lockup. Trailer brakes are a pain to balance and set for best effect. the newer brake actuators are a lot better in this respect. You dont want your trailer brakes (that you set for full load) to lock up empty as the trailer might try to pass you.

No doubt every one of us has seen drivers pulling trailers that have no idea what they are doing. I have seen old and feeble as well as young and foolish and all in between. It probably should require an additional test to pull anything over 1500 pounds but there is more rules than we can remember or laws the cops can enforce now! I just know what a sucking feeling it is knowing you are not going to get stopped. I live right at the bottom of a steep hill with a 90 intersection there. You wouldnt belive the combinations of vehicles I have seen wind up in the swamp there. One of the cutest was a large boat on a too short and tail heavy trailer that was lifting about three hundred pounds off the rear of the pickup pulling it. The rear wheels of the truck locked up and the anti lock brake system held off the front brakes to match and he just sailed in with virtually no braking action at all.

The newest generation of electric brake controllers, such as the Tekonsha Prodigy, are no worry devices that make past generations of controllers obsolete. They self-level themselves and automatically compensate for uphill, level and downhill braking. They are set and forget devices such that constant monkeying with the gain level, insufficient trailer braking while headed downhill or the skidding of trailer tires while braking on flat terrain are a long gone memories of past generations of trailer brake controllers. Try one of the new models and you won't believe the difference it makes.

 

[John D]

One axle will help. You can only get braking power to the point the rubber skids; actually best just before lockup. Trailer brakes are a pain to balance and set for best effect. the newer brake actuators are a lot better in this respect. You dont want your trailer brakes (that you set for full load) to lock up empty as the trailer might try to pass you.

Trailer brake are more a pain on trailers that have a large weight differential between there light weight,and max loaded weight.Enclosed trailer,and campers are much easier to set up as there weight doesnt change very much.I find my 5 and 7 ton utilitys trailers near impossible to have any braking at all empty or near empty,all you do is end up flat spotting tires.I dont lend my trailers for that reason,tires are expensive.
One advantage of brakes on one axle of a tandem is it will never pass you or fishtail locking up.the non brake axle will keep it tracking straight.I find single brake tandem trailers a nightmare,esp those with torsion axles,as they never have equal weight on them,unless they are towed perfectly level.

 

[CaseyForrest]

I'm going to put electric brakes on the front axle and see how they work. I'll go from there.
Thanks!

Best bet, if you are going 1 axle is to put them on the rear.

Generally, when people hitch up the tounge is higher than the rear of the trailer. That puts more weight on the rear axle than the front.

 

[CaseyForrest]

The newest generation of electric brake controllers, such as the Tekonsha Prodigy, are no worry devices that make past generations of controllers obsolete. They self-level themselves and automatically compensate for uphill, level and downhill braking. They are set and forget devices such that constant monkeying with the gain level, insufficient trailer braking while headed downhill or the skidding of trailer tires while braking on flat terrain are a long gone memories of past generations of trailer brake controllers. Try one of the new models and you won't believe the difference it makes.

I don't believe the Prodigy compensates for road grade. If it did, it would need to be leveled. It something self levels, it wont know if its on an incline as it will constantly be adjusting itself.

I have the P3, and what it does offer is proportional braking. In lay terms..the harder I step on the brake, the more current is supplied to the trailer brakes. It does this by sensing how quickly the tow vehicle is being slowed.

 

[PasoRoblesJimmy]

I don't believe the Prodigy compensates for road grade. If it did, it would need to be leveled. It something self levels, it wont know if its on an incline as it will constantly be adjusting itself.

I have the P3, and what it does offer is proportional braking. In lay terms..the harder I step on the brake, the more current is supplied to the trailer brakes. It does this by sensing how quickly the tow vehicle is being slowed.

The P3 must be an older or a cheaper design. The Prodigy Part No. 90185 is Tekonsha's top-of-the line controller. It does proportional braking. There is no adjustment for level on it and no provision for level adj on it. NADA. No need for it. The motion detector technology incorporated in it makes manual level setting obsolete. Set the gain for optimal braking on level ground and it automatically compensates for uphill and downhill driving. Set it and forget it! The Primus is self-leveling as well, but it isn't as intelligent as the Prodigy.

Don't take my word for it, Check Tekonsha's website. Read the print and watch the video.
http://www.tekonsha.com/product/details.asp?ProdID=90185&cat=1435

 

[046]

a true proportional brake controller is best.

prodigy while being an excellent controller is still inertia controlled. I find it strange prodigy's brochures claim it's a proportional controller.

only aware of two types of proportional controllers.

first is a hydraulic controller based upon feedback from sensor teed into hydraulic lines. several mfg offer hydraulic controllers... a PITA to install, typically $500+

second type of proportional controller uses brake pedal linkage movement to give feedback to sensor. (Ultima $120, not currently available) if your hydraulic brakes ever should go out while pulling a trailer. Ultima would still work.

with proportional controllers... trailer braking feedback is based completely on how hard you step on brake pedal. vs inertial controllers requires tow vehicles brakes to slow down trailer and tow vehicle before trailer brakes starts to work.

with proportional controllers it's totally possible to adjust feedback to where trailers brakes first. this allows tow vehicle's brakes to remain cool.

this is only critical when towing heavier loads. when you are towing a 20k+ lb loaded trailer with a Cummins truck. the last thing you want is brake fade. Really fortunate to have a Ultima controller on my Cummins truck. Too bad Ultima controllers are not back in production yet.

here's a pic showing how it works.