Tree Felling Question

[StrataTree]

No amount of ppe can fix stupid. I started this business before chaps so training covered proper handling of a chainsaw and kickback prevention. I have a pair and if its cool out I usually wear them but if it's hot I don't. I however have witnessed many ppe preaching dip ####s over the years that would need chaps if they used a dull pocket knife cleaning their finger nails.

:hmm3grin2orange:

You got that right!!!

I got nothin else to add!

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Chaps and kevlar boots qnd all that are fine and dandy, but no substitute for proper saw skills. Every saw cut I've ever seen had one thing in common: they put a body part in the arc of the bar. I may be wearing a bulletproof vest, but I still don't want you to point a gun at me. Chaps may or may not prevent an injury, but not putting body parts where the saw can hit em always does.

 

[forestryworks]

The undercut, that first level cut you make before the face is complete, sets the standard for under cutting a tree's center of gravity. Everything else tips, swings, or gives it room to fall.

Might be why they call it an undercut? :msp_rolleyes:

 

[Limbrat]

Injuries I have witnessed were all caused by stupidity and the PPE didn't help a bit! I don't wear any thing in a tree but ear plugs and eye protection. On the ground chaps and a lid, but the best protection you can have is between your ears.

No doubt your best protection is inside your skull, but some skulls are thicker than others and sometimes stuff happens that even the best CANNOT foresee. That's what PPE is for!

 

[Carburetorless]

I've had to pull a few trees over to get them to go where they needed to go. Placing the rope as high as possible(high as you can get it without risking breaking the top out) is a must. I use a bore cut, and let the pull guy put pressure on it, so it's started in the right direction before releasing the back strap. It's a good idea to have another saw ready to go, because they can sit down on your bar while you're making your bore cut. If that happens have the pull guy start pulling it on over while you release the back strap with the other saw.

 

[Carburetorless]

and poke it in the exact spot needed to keep from exerting to much pressure on a trunk that just hit the ground. I suggest sticking a slide rule and micrometer in your hip pocket instead of a wedge.

Let me make sure I've got this straight; First I use a feeler gauge to gauge width of the gap at the top of the log, then I use the micrometer to find a stick the right thickness to stop the gap from closing?

O.K. good to go.

 

[JeffandTamara]

I hope the 3 pictures I attached make it.... I have 2 trees on the side of a small ditch I would like to take down for firewood. As can be seen from the pictures, the trees are hung up and leaning.
Can someone walk me through their thought process when trying to do something like this. I won't be considering to attempt this until next fall, The Tic's will carry you off!!, So I have some time.

I have a small backhoe that I can use to assist.

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

Bring them both down towards the camera at the same time. Tie in as high as you are comfortable on the upright tree. Face cut both towards the camera. Back cut the upright tree first. Back cut the leaning tree and pull with the tractor.

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

You can aim them left if the tops look like they will slide (the leaning tree will help push them both down). If the tops look like they will not slide aim them slightly right so they will fall without the tops sliding.

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

If the leaning tree is really brittle you might save the upright tree for last. leave some extra holding wood so they don't fall on you.

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

Make sure both face cuts are level with the ground so they don't pull against each other on the way to the ground.

 

[woodchuck357]

Put a rope high in the leaners, cut chunks off the bottom until they are near vertical then pull them over away from the trees they are leaning against. When cutting chunks off make the first cut from the top and finish from the bottom to reduce the chance of binding the bar.
You might try two ropes, one to have a helper use to hold the top of the leaner tight against the support tree as you are cutting chunks off so as to keep the tree you are cutting on from coming loose before you are ready to pull it over.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

If you have a backhoe just push them over.

 

[Saddle Mander]

Where in NJ are you?

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

If you try woodchucks method watch Daniel Murphy's plunge cut. Search "Daniel Murphy big ash leaner". I don't have the guts to try it on something that big.

 

[DangerTree]

If you have to use a truck to rip it over, then your doing it wrong. If you have to use wedges to make it go, your doing it wrong. If you have to use those things to lay something over, then you shouldn't be doing it. Proper notching, reading the wood and understanding what you are looking at is key. Go watch a pro, see how he does it, as every tree is different. They are all conditional. Read up on holding wood. A regular hand line is fine, you shouldn't need anything bigger. If you do it right, you can cut your notch and your back cut all the way to 10%, the tree should stay, unless it is a big leaner or has a huge amount of weight to one side, but if it is close to balanced, it will stay. If it starts to go before you get there, stay there and finish the cut. Lots of guys bail at the first sign of movement, then they leave holding wood thick to one side and the tree turns to that side as its going. Bad things happen then if you don't commit. If ya do it right, then with a tag line, you should be able to pull it over (by hand) with ease. There is much more too it than a saw and a truck. It wouldn't hurt to go stay at a Holiday Inn Express either. I use sticks to keep the cut open when cutting up a log, I don't want to "wedge it" to keep it open, that puts unneeded tension on the wood as you cut it. Just find ya a stick that is the same size a the cut and shove it in, keeps the bar going thru with ease, keeps the cut open so the bar wont pinch and ya wont nick a chain if you have metal wedges. I never try and cut all the way thru a log on the ground, go about 80% then roll it. Keeps that chain clean and sharp.

Really? I use my 5 ton bucket truck and a 7/8" Samson Bull rope to pull some mighty big trees down with ease! Are you telling me I'm doing it wrong? I've been doing it wrong successfully for years! I make a damn fine living doing it wrong. And sticks instead of wedges? Common man? Really? Are you trying to get someone killed? Dude don't listen to this guy he's only got two things right here and thats dont use metal wedges and roll the log over. Everything else is not acurate! Never stay beside a falling tree you will get pounded eventually. Never use a rope on a tree that can't lift the whole tree! A 7/8" bull rope will have a rated working load of 2000 lbs and a breaking strength of 19000 lbs! All gear in the chain including pulleys, turfers, fasteners, cables, bumpers on trucks should exceed the maximum amount of force that can be applied, should bad things happen. A hand line will not hold a tree of any real size. Also if you intend to use that hand line for climbing purposes after you have stretched the piss out of it DON'T, you may die! Do not pull a huge tree with a pickup truck unless you want to do a burnout and then get dragged down a cliff with the tree, seen it happen, and it was funny. Also NEVER pull a tree with a hand line/ climbing rope attached to a truck! Bad idea! If you do, chop the rope up immediately so no one uses it as a climbing rope. The " tree should stay thing" gets house crushed when gust of wind comes up! Never fall a sky bound tree without a rope attached and a wedge in the back cut if there are houses or other expensive items near by. And finally, if you have to ask how to do it, you probably should call an insured tree care professional. Sgreanbeans, no disrespect intended, but be careful what advice you give to people, some folks are out to save a buck and it can be tragic.

 

[DangerTree]

Higher is better, if the tie in point is strong enough to hold the weight of the tree. Communication with puller is also necessary, I like hands free two way ear muff type radios. Some times puller is out of sight of cutter.

Agreed but there is another part to that equation, I know you Know but others might not. If your rope angle is less than 45 degrees you lose advantage on your pull. It is better to be lower on the tree and have good pull angle than higher on the tree with bad angle. To counter lower rope heights you must have slightly beefier hinge wood. Also, if you can go over a strong branch and secure the rope at the base of the tree you will have additional mechanical advantage. Inserting a truckers hitch and pulley in the string will provide another quick 2:1 advantage. One more important tidbit of info, the higher up you go, the more farther the rope must travel to move the tree the same distance. If i can pull a 100 foot tree roped at 10 feet from the ground 1 foot then the top will move 10 feet! if , however, I rope the tree at 50 feet and pull it 1 foot the top will only move 2 feet. So it can clearly be seen that using a static rope attached to a truck will require constant pulling roped at 50 feet or the force will stop being applied as the rope slacks. However, one could use a dynamic rope and get greater range. Problem is most large bull ropes are static. So, with that said if you plan to rope high, it might be a good idea to have greater rope angle and the ability to quickly take up slack. You will need to take up less slack roped closer to the ground. Just be careful not to rip the tree off the stump!

 

[DangerTree]

Oh, just so you know I am a professional tree rigger, I dismantle trees for a living. It is and has been my sole source of income for the last 25 years, and before that I logged old growth cedar for the shake and timber markets. And in that time I have zero injuries and no property damage! None! I work on a contract basis throughout BC in residential areas. I also have a full time tree service in the interior of BC. I enjoy the removal of large urban trees and highly rotten ones. I do NOT do hedges! I don't do Hydro contracts either, they suck! way too monotonous pole sawing limbs away from power lines. Yuk! Just can't do it.
Like any job, you never stop learning but in this business it takes years to really start to get the hang of it. Even today there are still some trees that I walk away from, just not worth the risk. Not that they can't be done but more the reward is not worth the risk. I do this for money and risk costs money, lots of money! Three days from now we will be dismantling a 130' fir tree 36" at the butt that was hit by another large tree and now has a hard lean towards a million dollar log cabin. Access is poor, foot only, drop zone is tight and the root is badly damaged! In fact, a good strong wind over the next couple days might just beat us too it. It will need climbing, hanging the top and chunking down. Remove all material and collect big fat paycheck! So if any of you guys got the nads for that kinda work and need a job, I'm hiring. Experience is a must! will supply all gear and grub. Wages negotiable. No woosies need apply! Will hire hot looking branch babes though, good for business.

 

[woodchuck357]

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Agreed but there is another part to that equation, I know you Know but others might not. If your rope angle is less than 45 degrees you lose advantage on your pull. It is better to be lower on the tree and have good pull angle than higher on the tree with bad angle. To counter lower rope heights you must have slightly beefier hinge wood. Also, if you can go over a strong branch and secure the rope at the base of the tree you will have additional mechanical advantage. Inserting a truckers hitch and pulley in the string will provide another quick 2:1 advantage. One more important tidbit of info, the higher up you go, the more farther the rope must travel to move the tree the same distance. If i can pull a 100 foot tree roped at 10 feet from the ground 1 foot then the top will move 10 feet! if , however, I rope the tree at 50 feet and pull it 1 foot the top will only move 2 feet. So it can clearly be seen that using a static rope attached to a truck will require constant pulling roped at 50 feet or the force will stop being applied as the rope slacks. However, one could use a dynamic rope and get greater range. Problem is most large bull ropes are static. So, with that said if you plan to rope high, it might be a good idea to have greater rope angle and the ability to quickly take up slack. You will need to take up less slack roped closer to the ground. Just be careful not to rip the tree off the stump!

I can't agree with advantage gained by going over a limb to the base of the tree. Sometimes it is easier but there is no mechanical advantage over being tied in at the same height.

 

[Greener]

The key is the face cut. Make sure it is exactly perpendicular to the direction the bull/pulling line is going. Next the strength of the pulling line/cable is proportionate to the size of the tree/trunk, the canopy mass and the degree of back lean. The more of each, the heavier the rigging gear must be. But the key is, it does not take much to pull a tree to vertical or slight favor to the lay (front lean) when you pull gradually as you do the back cut. Keep a wedge in the back cut after the saw is in and the groundie gradually pulls as you cut. What most guys won't say is, right at the very beginning of when it starts to go, give one last quick tug. Timing and patience is key, especiallly with the back cut. What I have seen is that the cutter usually goes through it too quick, gets "ahead" of the puller and the bull line slacks up just before the tree really goes-this is what you do not want! Last, make sure you cut a fairly beefy hinge (depending on species), couple hinges higher on the back cut from the apex (where the face cut meets in the V). Personally, though, in this business, I'm a "100 percenter." If there is any question, climb it, rig it and chunk it. The homeower would much rather have a hold in the yard than the house, fence, etc.