tree paint

[jmack]

I got da kummerlings catalog and lo and behold a page of special tree paint cans no drip lids and so on. Well is anyone using this .. comments, rudeness, scientific facts always appreciated j

 

[Ekka]

Ahhh

Dont waste your money on that snake oil, use vegemite!

 

[treeseer]

I used tree paint yesterday on a big japanese maple that lost limbs due to girdling roots. The wounds were white and ugly so I painted them--the wood, not the bark--for cosmetic reasons.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

We use it to prevent Oak Wilt, for those times we need to make cuts during the growing season on Oaks. It creates a barrier between the tree's vascular system and sap feeding insects that would be attracted to fresh cuts.
It's also a good idea to paint the stumps of Oaks quickly after the tree is removed, if there are any other healthy Oaks within a few hundred feet.
It's a nice cosmetic covering for large tears or cuts on any tree.
I'm not sure of any study that supports it, but it might be smart to cover larger cuts on Red and American Elms during the growing season too. It has been shown that Elm Bark Beetles are attracted to newly pruned and/or stressed Elms, and I suspect part of the attraction could be the scent of fresh sap.
You need to consider what insect and disease problems you have in your location, and determine what role fresh wounds play in their transmission. I'd think there are at least one or two species that could benefit from the use of some sort of pruning paint in many locations.
Some guys think they have have better products, home remedies, grafting wax with fungicides or whatever. Commercial pruning paint has the advantage of exhaustive studies.
This goes along with sanitizing your tools with alcohol or bleach solutions. What kind of care would you want an arborist to give your high value trees?

 

[John464]

i remember reading somewhere that there was a case study that showed no benefit and could possibly interfere with certain trees natural healing capabilities due to the chemical content.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

i remember reading somewhere that there was a case study that showed no benefit and could possibly interfere with certain trees natural healing capabilities due to the chemical content.

If you read some of Shigo's stuff that was his big claim, and it's true to an extent. If you are talking only about a tree's ability to compartmentalize a wound, then yes, in some cases it slightly slowed the process.
But if you are talking about preventing the spread of a devastating fungal disease like Oak Wilt, I'd rather have a slightly slowed healing process on a few wounds, than a dead stand of Oaks on my property.
With using paint cosmetically only, on large wounds, that's a judgment call. Is the small effect the paint has on the tree a bigger issue than a huge white eye?
Light applications are shown less harmful than heavy ones.
I'll use a gloved hand to spread a very light spray of paint around.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

We also use it to seal light out/ smother mistletoe that has ben scraped rather than amputated.

i also think a case can be made for an inoculation of fungus spores (not using paint immediately) getting covered by black paint that is supposed to seal out water. For it seals it in too; doesn't let wood dry Natureally. Now, we may have created a condition/ incubation of dampness under the paint, that being black could get warmer than surrounding area. Thus, warm, dark, damp with sealed in spores = incubator??

Another point is how ultra-violent light is more recognized for sanitizing many items now. It would seem to me that the paint reduces this.

i don't use it unless sealing out specific local malady; which down'ere is 'only' mistletoe; or rather light from mistletoe(after setting back its lifecycle by scraping-in 'non-removal' areas like mainstem etc.).

 

[Jim1NZ]

Paint is a waste of time. I have seen insect damage with painted wounds just the same as if they were never been painted at all. A layer of paint less than 0.5 of a mm thick is going to stop nothing. Insects can sense a stressed tree and they will attack, the stress could be a result of pruning.

I agree with Mike in it is important to remove stumps around other trees as the fungal bodies grow and release spores which increase the chance of infecting neighboring trees.

Hey Mike, where did you find that the Elm Bark beetles are attracted to pruning wounds? It kind of makes sense, sharks are attracted to blood. But the beetles know exactly what tree they are after and they don't need to enter through a pruning wound...

Of cause you are going to see studies from the company's making the paint as they are simply trying to sell there product.

I say give the paint miss, haha and definitely give the vegemite a miss, you heard of marmite? :hmm3grin2orange: joking

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have seen insect damage with painted wounds just the same as if they were never been painted at all. A layer of paint less than 0.5 of a mm thick is going to stop nothing.

The tought here is that it keeps the bugs feeding on the sap ooz and fungal mats from infecting the cut area. They are not boaring pests.

I've rerad papers where the saw flys feed on the fungal mats then fly over to cuts to "get a drink".

Another study donw in the Twin Cities showed a lower mortality on trees cut and painted then tose un painted. They also showed trees trimmed in late summer had lower mortality then those trimmed in dormancy.

I agree with Mike in it is important to remove stumps around other trees as the fungal bodies grow and release spores which increase the chance of infecting neighboring trees.

In this case the fungus can be translocated between root grafts because the cut tree is no longer transporting fluids up the missing stem. everything flows readily through out the grove. Studies have shown that immidiate grinding, dormant removal, or trenching prior to removal can reduce grove mortality.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Paint is a waste of time. I have seen insect damage with painted wounds just the same as if they were never been painted at all. A layer of paint less than 0.5 of a mm thick is going to stop nothing. Insects can sense a stressed tree and they will attack, the stress could be a result of pruning.

Paint is not a waste of time if it stops a catastrophic disease from killing an entire stand of trees.
You are thinking in general terms instead of thinking of specific insects and diseases. If a carpenter ant chews through pruning paint into damp rotting wood, I don't care. However, if a nitidulid, who just flew from a fungal mat of Oak Wilt, lands on a fresh cut, I do care! Nitidulids don't have chewing mouth parts, they can't chew through paint or bark, but during the growing season, their bodies are covered with spores of Oak Wilt.
Sap feeding insects are usually not borers. They need an opening in the bark to get to the vascular system.

I agree with Mike in it is important to remove stumps around other trees as the fungal bodies grow and release spores which increase the chance of infecting neighboring trees.

I didn't say remove the stump. The fungi that decay dead stumps is harmless to other trees. I am worried about sap feeding beetles, which may be infected with fungal spores, from landing on the fresh cut, infecting the stump, and spreading to other trees via root grafts.

Hey Mike, where did you find that the Elm Bark beetles are attracted to pruning wounds? It kind of makes sense, sharks are attracted to blood. But the beetles know exactly what tree they are after and they don't need to enter through a pruning wound...

I didn't say they were attracted to pruning cuts. They are attracted to the trees themselves. Elm Bark beetles are borers, they aren't attracted directly to sap. They enter the tree right through the bark.
What I was suggesting was the scent of sap may be part of what attracts them. This is just my intuition on the subject, I know of no study that confirms it.
there was a study done in Wisconsin, published in the ISA's JOA that confirmed an increase in populations of Elm Bark Beetles on pruning stressed Elm trees.

 

[treeseer]

The fungi that decay dead stumps is harmless to other trees. .

Mike I agree with everything you say but this. Armillaria Ganoderma Meripilus etc come to mind. Care to rephrase?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Are you referring to an existing fungal problem? In that case, follow whatever steps are recommended for that particular fungus.
If you are suggesting that dead stump or other piece of wood decaying in the forest will promote populations of harmful fungus, then it would be news to me.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Cheers for clearing that up Mike.

 

[Jim1NZ]

bugs feeding on the sap ooz

So does the sap ooz or sap flow (at cetrian times of the year) affect the paint?

 

[treeseer]

"Are you referring to an existing fungal problem? In that case, follow whatever steps are recommended for that particular fungus."

Well let's see, in a TCI article, it was recommended to treat Armillaria by excising the infected bark, didinfecting, and improving the soil. I do that, and it works.

"If you are suggesting that dead stump or other piece of wood decaying in the forest will promote populations of harmful fungus, then it would be news to me."

In the forest, spores are not often harmful because trees are not often wounded (compared to the landscape). But in a back yard, if you have a conk pumping out billions of spores, how does that NOT spread decay to trees down the road that doofus nicked with his mower? Allowing inoculum to increase is bad; conks and shrooms should be picked and eaten (if they are good to eat) or buried.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=17805&highlight=NEWTS

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=17706&highlight=NEWTS

 

[Ekka]

I heard once that tree wounds were painted to prevent water getting in and freezing over night, expanding the area and parhaps cracking it.

Now, it never freezes here so I cant test that theory out.

I'm not sure about burying fungus either.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Guy, Don't forget woodchips are small pieces of dead wood too. Should we be raking them up, along with shedding bark and leaves?
You can't stop wood decay by reducing other sources of of wood decay fungal spores. It doesn't matter if one spore or 10 million land on the wood, it's going to decay if the condition are right.
This goes back to newts, pink boards, leaving dead branches and stubs. I think it's the environmental conditions (moisture, light, temperature, O2, etc) that determine if and how fast wood decays, and how healthy a tree is that determines the success of compartmentalization of wounds.
You seem to think it's the number of wood decay spores present.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I heard once that tree wounds were painted to prevent water getting in and freezing over night, expanding the area and parhaps cracking it.

Now, it never freezes here so I cant test that theory out.

I'm not sure about burying fungus either.

Ekka, If you think about how wood is structured, like a bundle of straws, filled with water, you'll realize wood is already wet. Live wood doesn't absorb water, it's saturated. Wood is also very flexible, watch a tree in the wind. It's even flexible in the middle of 35 degree below zero Fahrenheit winter.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

paintn' elms

We use tree paint on American Elms when we have to prune in the summer when the bark beetles are at their worst. And the paint comes in handy for those occasional bad cuts (rips, tears, whatever)

 

[elmnut]

I use bright orange paint for making x's.