trouble with predator 346 cc engine

[arlen]

The reason I ask all those questions is, from your description of how it runs for a minute or so before it acts up (if I have that correct?), it sounds a lot like the float level is set too low...

Ok, how do you adjust the float level?

 

[Whitespider]

Most floats have a tab on them where the inlet needle hooks to with some sort of spring clip/hanger.
The float level is set by simply bending that tab to adjust how soon the needle opens the inlet valve.
There's probably some spec and measurement, but normally you don't want the valve to close tight until the float is (for lack of a better term) level.
A float set to low means when the needle won't be open enough to keep up with the fuel demand, causing the fuel level to drop to a point where the pick-ups start sucking air, causing a lean condition.
I can't say for sure that's your problem... but it's worth check out. Also, make sure the needle isn't binding/sticking and you have good strong fuel flow into the float bowl with the valve open... (i.e. make sure you don't have a restricted fuel line... blocked, plugged, kinked, etc.)
It does sound like a fuel issue, but a blocked or plugged port in the carb should cause problems from the get-go, not after a minute or so... sound like it's running out of fuel after a minute or so.

 

[aokpops]

Boy, I hope so that would be simple.

I removed the carburator and drained the float bowl the gas looked and smelled clean. The engine looks like brand new no kinks in the fule line or wiring that I can see. I will replace the plug tomorrow and try it out. thanks for the input.

Arlen you had the float bowl off . Now look right in the center ,that will be the main jet . Get some eye protection on ,spray some carb cleaner in the hole an some compressed air . If anything is in there will cause this .

 

[Natewood]

The oil sensors are touchy in those engines. I had the same problem with mine until I put 30w in. my mechanic even reccomends 15-40 (diesel oil) for small engines

 

[hondaracer2oo4]

Here is what I would do, eliminate the possible electrical issues first. Bypass the oil level sensor by looping the wire or breaking the connection(which ever way it works). Next get yourself a 5 dollar inline spark tester, start the engine and run it, do you see the tester flashing consistently or does the light miss once it warms up? You can also try putting a hair dryer to the cdi box before you start it up to see if it acts strange right away. If those check out, next you will need to get a can of starting fluid, with the air cleaner off you need to meter starting fluid through the carb throat when it starts to act funny, if you can get it to smooth out than you have a carb issue. Unfortunately since it is a POS California carb you will probably not be able to make any adjustments to the fuel mixture screw or other adjusters. You will need to remove the carb from the motor, remove the bowl and jets out of the carb. You are going to need to make sure that the orifices are clear in each jet. Next you need a compressor to be able to blow out each orifice in the carb and ensure that air comes out of the respected exits of each orifice. Every orifice has an exit somewhere, make sure that each hole you put the compressed air to exits somewhere else on the carb. One more thing, you should disconnect the governor and run the governor yourself to ensure that the governor isn't just acting funny and killing the engine. After you have done these, report back.

 

[arlen]

Report back as requested

:msp_rolleyes:

Hey guys, I removed the carburetor and cleaned it took out the jet and looked for obstruction on and cleaned and reinstalled it.

I tried to drain all of the gas back into a gas can and noticed that it stopped flowing, I loosened the gas cap and it started to flow.
So I have vacuum problem in the tank.

I disconnected a hose to the vent on top of the tank it went to some kind of a filter than to the carburetor. This seemed to solve the fuel going to the carburetor problem.

It ran and did not die.

The only carburetor adjustment seems to be is an idol adjustment screw. If I screw it all the way in the engine runs at full throttle, all the way out and it stalls.

The engine still seems to be starved for fuel, when I extend or retract the ram the engine stumbles and wants to stall. This is when the pump is at high volume low pressure.

When the ram slows down to low volume high pressure to push through the round it increased throttle as needed.

I have a 16 gpm pump with an 11hp Harbor Freight Predator motor.

Thanks David

 

[cnice_37]

Vapor lock - woohoo, what do I win? Well, I guess nuthin' as you have other issues.

You need the idle screw in somewhat, set it for mfr RPMs without loading. Get that set properly, then load her down. They usually run around 3000 RPMs I think. Got a tach or a good ear?

 

[arlen]

Good call Cnice37

rep sent your way

 

[arlen]

Ok, seems like I have some new problems.
The splitter valve started to leak I tried cleaning and reassembling it a few times
I took it apart and noticed a lot of milky white hydraulic fluid.
I took the valve to a hydraulic company and the counter person gave me two sets of o rings and seals for free. I reassembled it putting Loctite on the bolts and tried the splitter the valve did not leak but the splitter valve started leaking from the fittings. I noticed my gage went up to 2000 psi and the fittings started spraying out milky hydraulic fluid.
I removed the fittings and reinstalled the hydraulic hose to the base of the splitter valve. This removed the pressure gage and some fittings. Some were schedule 80 and some schedule 40. I will purchase some schedule 80 seamless hydraulic fittings before I reconnect the gage.
The hydraulic tank reservoir is about 5 gallons so my 16 GPM pump cycles the tank more than every 20 seconds.
I am assuming I need a bigger tank; I have another tank that is about 15 gallons I should probably by pass the smaller tank and use the larger tank?
Thanks David

 

[blades]

David your hydro fluid is contaminated with water. Replace it, Aw40 or 50, or even ATF will work fine. Standard pipe fittings are a ##### to get to seal under hydro pressure. You could inter-connect the 2 tanks sealing off any air vent in one. Although the 15 gallon is enough by itself. Pictures please If the valve is in neutral and you are building 2k psi something is either not plumbed right or the valve is not assembled correctly. It should be just flowing in and out of the valve at very low pressure. We do not know if you have a 2 stage pump as well. makes a diff. so more ifo needed

 

[arlen]

David your hydro fluid is contaminated with water. Replace it, Aw40 or 50, or even ATF will work fine. Standard pipe fittings are a ##### to get to seal under hydro pressure. You could inter-connect the 2 tanks sealing off any air vent in one. Although the 15 gallon is enough by itself. Pictures please If the valve is in neutral and you are building 2k psi something is either not plumbed right or the valve is not assembled correctly. It should be just flowing in and out of the valve at very low pressure. We do not know if you have a 2 stage pump as well. makes a diff. so more ifo needed

Yes I have a two stage pump it is 16 gmp high flow low pressure to 4 gpm high pressure low flow.
i did not change any of the plumbing to the origional splitter valve filter location high pressure lines etc...
The pressure only builds up when the hydraulic cylinder is moving not while the valve is in nuteral.
What is aw40 or 50 I know what ATF is what kind of ATF?

 

[blades]

aw= All Weather 40 hydraulic fluid or 50 ( # refer to viscosity) ATF cheapest stuff available, at 15gal. aw will cost less. Pressure should build when the ram goes out and dead heads at end of stroke to the level that the relief valve is set at ( 2k psi?). When the ram is moving and nothing in its way around 700psi apx. The pump should automatically kick down to lfhp when enough resistance is seen in the circuit. You should not see 2k psi when the ram is freely moving unless the is a pinched line somewhere. I do not know how much effect water contamination would have on that. Make sure that the breather cap for the tank is able to pass air in and out. Some units do not have a cap per say but there is a air relief passage drilled in the fill port plug. Generally have to back that out until it is visible for it to function. I prefer the caps with a filter element in them but my unit does not sit out in the elements when not in use.

 

[aokpops]

:msp_rolleyes:

Hey guys, I removed the carburetor and cleaned it took out the jet and looked for obstruction on and cleaned and reinstalled it.

I tried to drain all of the gas back into a gas can and noticed that it stopped flowing, I loosened the gas cap and it started to flow.
So I have vacuum problem in the tank.

I disconnected a hose to the vent on top of the tank it went to some kind of a filter than to the carburetor. This seemed to solve the fuel going to the carburetor problem.

It ran and did not die.

The only carburetor adjustment seems to be is an idol adjustment screw. If I screw it all the way in the engine runs at full throttle, all the way out and it stalls.

The engine still seems to be starved for fuel, when I extend or retract the ram the engine stumbles and wants to stall. This is when the pump is at high volume low pressure.

When the ram slows down to low volume high pressure to push through the round it increased throttle as needed.

I have a 16 gpm pump with an 11hp Harbor Freight Predator motor.

Thanks David

Got the same setup, Notice the same thing with the engine , tighten the gas cap up seemed to fix it , over filled it once ,flooded it needs to below the top about 1 inch ,

 

[redheadwoodshed]

You have to purchase the warranty separate now at HF.I just bought the 400 whatever cc engine for 280$.New in the box.To return it I have to pay a restock fee or buy the warranty.I think the Oregon carb they build to fit the Hondas will fit right on it.Still not too expensive for a brand new engine. If I had a good shop nearby (I do) I'd take it to the shop.If not, I buy another carb.I think Bailey's has them and replace the carb or go buy another one, pay the extra for the warranty (about the same as the price of a carb) and take back the bad one.Or maybe even a kit.It sure sounds like a carb issue to me.

 

[Wagnerwerks]

You need to clean the pick up ( for lack of a better term) that extends into bowl. Likely there is a float and in some cases you have to careful how you reinstall the bowl or it blocks the float. depending on how the bowl is held on. that nut or small brass fitting might have 2 very small holes in it , one horizontal the other is vertical and centered. It leads down to the horizontal one. it takes a very fine piece of wire to clean it out as this is the one that is usually plugged from old gas or dirt.

.. I had the same exact thing going on... The local Honda guy got me to do this and it was the ticket. He said its common on Hondas and the copies.

 

[arlen]

aw= All Weather 40 hydraulic fluid or 50 ( # refer to viscosity) ATF cheapest stuff available, at 15gal. aw will cost less. Pressure should build when the ram goes out and dead heads at end of stroke to the level that the relief valve is set at ( 2k psi?). When the ram is moving and nothing in its way around 700psi apx. The pump should automatically kick down to lfhp when enough resistance is seen in the circuit. You should not see 2k psi when the ram is freely moving unless the is a pinched line somewhere. I do not know how much effect water contamination would have on that. Make sure that the breather cap for the tank is able to pass air in and out. Some units do not have a cap per say but there is a air relief passage drilled in the fill port plug. Generally have to back that out until it is visible for it to function. I prefer the caps with a filter element in them but my unit does not sit out in the elements when not in use.

Your explanation on how the pressure builds up in the system seems to be the way mine is working.
My splitter is kept under a 36 foot RV steel carport with a 40 foot shipping container acting as a wall. It may get dripped on a little from small screw holes in the tin roof but it generally stays pretty dry.
Ok, thanks for the explanation of the hydraulic fluid.
I can get five gallons of 46AW hydraulic fluid for $45 dollars with a military discount is this a good price?
Not sure how the hydraulic oil got contaminated, it was possibly in the oil before I put it in the splitter.
I have a 55 gallon steel drum that was full of hydraulic fluid I bought in 2006.
It is almost empty it sits out in the weather and the top of the container is pretty rusty.
I will buy new fluid before I fill the new to me hydraulic tank and try and drain the old system as much as possible.

 

[arlen]

Tank size and how much hydraulic fluid.

How much hydraulic fluid is needed for this system, or how much should I put into the system.
I have a predator 346 11 hp motor
A SPEECO 16 gpm two stage log splitter pump

A hydraulic tank that measures 10x19x20 inches = 3800 cubic inches
3800/231 = 16.45 gallons.
Should I put 15 gallons of hydraulic fluid into the tank?
Other question should I install an oil water separator?
How much would one cost?
Are they pretty efficient?
Thanks guys.

 

[blades]

You can use all 15 gal. as some of it is going to reside in the lines pump and cylinder. Condensation is the likely culprit as far as contamination is concerned in that 55 gal drum and if real rusty on top maybe some seepage as well. When not using you need to seal that breather off. Drain off the oil you have in the system, get some Kerosene or similar to flush out the tank with before connecting the new tank to system and filling with oil. Use about 3/4 of the new stuff and cycle system a bunch of times to purge air and such from lines/cylinder. Ya need a couple inches of clearance at the top of the tank for heat expansion of the oil. Easier to under-fill than overfill. I don't think you need a separator but should have a filter assembly on the return line.