Two Speed PTO Powered Splitter ?

[EXCALIBER]

I am building a splitter on a 12 inch I beam with a 15 1/2 inch tall wedge similar to the Timberwolf design. I would like to run a 4 way or 6 way or larger slip on wedge. I currently have a 5" bore, 18 inch stroke, 2.75" rod cylinder. I was originally going to run a 22gpm 2 stage pump off of my 13hp engine but now I'm toying with the idea of running it off the tractor with a PTO pump. The thing I like about the PTO pump is the constant gpm flow vs the slow second stage on the two stage splitter. I have 46 hp PTO off my TYM 603 tractor and the tractor has a standard 540 6 spline shaft, but the tractor has a lever to switch it to 1000 RPM PTO from the cab running lower RPM on the engine and saving fuel but with less mechanical advantage. Has anyone ran a pto powered splitter with the 1000 rpm range?

I know Prince makes some pumps but they are pricey and only 2250 psi max, but now there is another brand, Dynamic, listed by surplus center for half the cost of the Prince and makes 2500 psi max. There is a 21 gpm pump in 6 spline 540 but also a 39.3 gpm pump 21 spline 1000 rpm pump (I would need adaptor or run a pto shaft). My thought is buy the bigger pump and then run tractor in the 1000 rpm pto mode just above idle and I would get at least 20gpm at idle roughly and then if I kicked up the rpm on the tractor engine I could get the full 39ish gpm?

So what am I missing? Should I do a stand alone gas unit for more psi or the tractor pto for more flow? Any other thoughts or ideas as I am having a hard time deciding, maybe I just need a bigger hydraulic cylinder?

 

[cantoo]

Nice to have the tractor to do other tasks which you split. I build a 36" splitter and went 17 gals per min and it's too slow. I'm thinking of upgrading already so the money I already spent is going to be wasted unless I build another splitter for the power system and sell it to pay for the upgrading.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

An H beam is what you need, not an I beam.

 

[blades]

I would go with the stand alone splitter- as noted above nice to have tractor free for other duties. Speed of a splitter is related to how fast you can fill/ empty the cylinder- so cylinder port diameter has a major affect at a given flow/pressure rate from the pump as well as control valve ports. Also relates to heat generated from friction of the fluid passing through the ports. 2 stage pump primarily runs in the high output mode only kicks down when a certain resistance met ie pressure increase once that is past it reverts to high flow. So your obsession with speed can be accomplished by sizing you ports accordingly. 3/4 or 1" ports on cylinder - I know that control valves come in 3/4" ports not sure on 1". I also know that the 11 and 16GPM pumps are 1/2' output port do not know what is on the larger units like the 28 gpm 2 stage. Just some random thoughts.

 

[EXCALIBER]

I would rather have an H beam but considering the I beam is 3/8 inch thick x 12 1/8 tall, 10 inches wide by little over 1/2 inch thick I believe it will be fine. If not since it's so wide I can add extra vertices bracing

 

[EXCALIBER]

Cylinder has 3/4 inch ports, and planning on running a dump valve. I figured instead of an autocycle valve rated at 25 gpm I could run single valves rated at 45 gpm. If the cylinder runs fast enough I don't know if there would be an actual need for autocycle?

 

[cantoo]

When I first built my 36" stroke splitter I thought it was fast enough then I started to streamline everything and all of a sudden I was waiting on the splitter cylinder. I split 2 pcs of 16" long rounds at a time with the 4 way wedge, I made a large table to stage rounds, I used my dump truck to dump rounds onto the big splitter table, I used my loader to load the rounds onto the dump truck. I use the conveyor to take splits away. I would bet that my overall production (splits in the pile) is still way way faster than I was before with my Speeco and a lot less physical work on my part. Sure I'm waiting on the cylinder to cycle back and forth but it's still a good pace. Any faster and I might loose a digit or two. For a business the speed is justifiable but for personal production that extra speed can be pretty expensive. Bigger cylinder, bigger valves, bigger hoses and fittings, maybe a cooler and on and on. I don't need to make my splitter faster but I want to make it faster. Need and want cost money.

 

[muddstopper]

If your going to use a 12in Ibeam, might as well figure on some bracing to keep it from twisting. It will twist before it bows. 12x10 is pretty good size, but the 1/2in flanges probably aint enought to prevent flex, even if they are 10 in wide. JMO.

 

[EXCALIBER]

Thought about running two half inch thick x 12 inch vertical supports the length of the beam about two inches out from the center flange.

 

[cantoo]

Excaliber, I think my H beam is 10" deep x 8" wide and 1/2" flanges and I can easily twist it splitting ash. 36" cylinder though. And FYI, mine very seldom goes into the 2nd stage for more than a second or two and very seldom at that.
I've seen guys run a heavy (3/4") flat bar welded onto the top of the beam and running the slide on it. Running a 4 or 6 way in oak or whatever will make you wince if the beam is too small.

 

[muddstopper]

The extra 1/2in on each side will help for sure, but instead of vertical, why not make it wider at the bottom and make a triangle. That should stop any twisting. I second adding plate to the top flange also. The top flange has more to do with the beam bowing than the web. Also a thin flange has a tendency to bend at the edges unless you have a really long slide.

 

[EXCALIBER]

How do all these other splitters get away with using just a 6.5 inch beam then? The beam weighs 400 lbs just by itself, and the wedge is probably another 50-100lbs. If I top plate the beam and gusset it probably another 200-300 lbs? What am I missing? Most the units I have looked at total weight is 2400lbs.

 

[cantoo]

The speeco and many others are a formed beam so that adds a lot of strength and not much weight. They also fail once in awhile too. I can make my Speeco beam twist if I try hard enough. It really doesn't matter on a single wedge splitter but once you get splitting 2, 4, or 6 ways you definitely don't want things twisting much. The forces are farther out from the center of the wedge or beam so a knot on the outside edge of the wedge will make the beam flex. I'm not sure how accurate those splitters are that say 35 ton either. Mine is mounted on a 3500 axle and it's heavy enough to sag the tires. Then I pile a ton or so of rounds on the table. I have a leg under the wedge end and jack under the tongue and those 3 pcs of ash 32" long on the tongue.

 

[WoodTick007]

An H beam is what you need, not an I beam.

Mr Valley is 100% correct. On top of the H beam I would weld a piece of bar stock 3/4" or 1" thick 12"s wide and at least the length of the stroke of the cylinder. Longer is better in my humble opinion.
Save your tractor. . . its foolish to ad wear and burn tractor fuel when a 420cc 16hp engine can be bought for $200-$300 with a 3 year warranty.

 

[muddstopper]

Factory splitters dont have 15in tall wedges. Lots of leverage with the tall wedge, but I wouldnt build a splitter without a tall wedge, my personal preference. My current splitter is homemade, with a 6in hbeam. I plated the top with 1/2in plate making the flange 1in thick. I plated each side with 3/4 in plate making the web 2in thick. I then added a 24in tall adjustable 6way wedge. I have a 5in bore cyl and can bow that beam. Your proposed dynamic pump at only 2500psi and your 5in bore cyl are going to make about 24.5 tons. Your short stroke of 18" will reduce stress simply because of the reduced lenght of Ibeam needed. I dont know whether or not using just the Ibeam as is will work or fail. What I do know is it's easier to overbuild and not have problems, than it is to underbuild, bend the Ibeam, and have to start over.

I have looked at a few of the DHT splitters at Lowes, not looking to buy, just compareing to what I already have. Their Beams are thin, maybe 3/8, and they are not Hbeams, (flanges are welded on) and very light duty in my opinion. That said, many people here own one and most love them. I havent heard any complaints of the beam bending. The wedge is also only 8in tall, not 15in like the one you want to build. I am fully confident that If I placed my 24in tall 6 way wedge on one of their hbeams, I would fold their beam up like a pretzel. Doesnt mean their splitters are no good, they are designed for a lot less stress/leverage than a tall wedge can put on them.

I tried to find some pic of the TW5 that showed the hbeam they used. Nothing in their literature saying much about the hbeam except its a 6.5. Best pics I could find showed what looked like a very thick beam, top flange looked to be 3/4" or 1" thick. Maybe someone that owns one can post a pic or comment on the beam design.

 

[EXCALIBER]

That's what I was trying to compare the timberwolf wedge is 12 inch tall, and if their push block is 1 inch thick (guessing) than the top plate to me looked like 1/2 inch thick. Idk but my thought was the top plate only keeps the pushblock on the beam and helps with twisting. The vertical webbing is responsible for the bowing. I figured gusseting the vertices Web on each side would do more to help keep it from twisting

 

[muddstopper]

I have never seen a TW in person and havent found a good enough picture to really tell anything about how their beam is designed or put together. JMO here, and I dont have any formal training in this area, but the problem I think I see with a thin web and flange is shearing. I would think that thin metal if it ever starts to crack, would just tear off, regardless of how tall the beam was. A thin tall beam would also seem to be more likely to twist. If it ever twist, it will sooner or later bow down or possibly buckle in the web. Thin flanges also tend to pull up if the slide tries to lift in hard to split rounds. I ripped a tall Ibeam off at the wedge using a 6in bore cyl when I tried to convert the wedge to a 4way by adding wings. ripped from top to bottom of the beam. It was a similar sized beam in height, but the flange was only about 6in wide. I do know from what I could see in some of the TW pics is that the wedge end of the beam is boxed, and can only guess that the rear cyl mount is also boxed. I also think the beam is thicker than 1/2in. I also suspect that the mounts for there wedge adjustment is also designed to support the beam. If you have a TW close by, you can look at you might see how they fixed their beam. I overbuild things so I dont have to revisit a possible issue later. As for weight, if your going to hook it to a 3pt hitch, what difference does weight make. My splitter is on a old boat axle and it weights a ton, but a 4wheeler can tow it without any problems.

 

[EXCALIBER]

I checked into the price to put 1 inch x 12 inch x 8ft plate steel on the I beam. It's a little over $250 just for that plate. That's 3x what I paid for the beam. Two half inch x 11 x 8ft plates to reinforce the Web is over $200

 

[blades]

Steel isn't cheap, but redoing what you have because it twisted up is even more expensive, time and material wise.

 

[muddstopper]

Yea, steel has broke the budget on my processor build as well. One piece of metal to put under the beam to hang the wedge on is almost $200. I built myself a track torch and started cutting strips out of scrap to do my plating with. Nothing says the plating has to be one long single piece. HBeam 8x8x 1/2" web and flange. Twin 4.5in cyl. 12 way box wedge. It might be heavy when finished, who am I kidding, its heavy already, but I dont want to have to rebuild it because I bent the beam. I have about 400lb of 1/2" plate still to cut out and add to the beam. Box wedge is 3/4 plate and probably weighs 400lbs, Cyls are about 300lbs pair. Push plate at least 200lbs. I'll be lucky if just the splitter part of this build doesnt weigh 2000lbs.