1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
black walnut trees cant grow in a wetland. drive on from that perspective. wetlands arent hard to identify. if there is ponded/standing water (in a normal year) the last week of may its bout 99% chance its a wetland.
Walnut trees & stumps in a pond
- Thread starter slipknot
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BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
Greg - you missed it. YOUR definition of a wetland makes sense. The FEDERAL definition of a wetland makes NO sense. That's exactly why people have gone to prison - no sane person would have suspected that cleaning up that small wet patch would be messing with a 'wetland'. There are places in the California DESERT that are legally wetlands!
1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
what part did i miss?
DadF
ArboristSite Operative
Back to part of the original question-just a quick search for juglone and fish on google brought up some interesting info if you want to wade through it. mostly though there doesn't seem to be a great concern for the effects of it on fish. The only real(reel 
)info I found was that Japanese fishermen used ground up hulls spread in the water to deplete the oxygen and make fish come up for air at the surface, but then the EPA turns around and says that juglone is not very soluble in water and takes a couple of months to break down in the soil. So if you want more info -look it up yourself
)info I found was that Japanese fishermen used ground up hulls spread in the water to deplete the oxygen and make fish come up for air at the surface, but then the EPA turns around and says that juglone is not very soluble in water and takes a couple of months to break down in the soil. So if you want more info -look it up yourself
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
1953greg said:
The part where it doesn't matter whether or not is really IS a wetland.
1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
i didnt mean it doesnt matter. i meant that where the black walnut trees are is definitely not a wetland. walnut trees are legume. legumes cant grow in anarobic conditions. there could be other areas that are wetland but not where the black walnut trees are.
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
I understand that, Greg. What I'm saying is that the legal definition of "wetland" in Federal law has NOTHING to do with reality. You are talking about reality, I'm pointing out that reality is irrelevant. Common sense is irrelelvant. You seem to be hung up on reality & common sense. Normally, that's a good thing!
But when it comes to violating Federal wetlands regulations, it could get you prison time!
Here's just one example:
http://www.caprep.com/0504013.htm
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=6621
But when it comes to violating Federal wetlands regulations, it could get you prison time!
Here's just one example:
http://www.caprep.com/0504013.htm
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=6621
moss
ArboristSite Guru
Here are some basic guidelines for pond construction to stay under the regulatory radar in Ohio:
http://ohioline.osu.edu/b374/b374_17.html
If your town has a Conservation Commission or something similar you might give them a call just to inquire about any local bylaws that could effect your project. You can always inquire anonymously if you don't want to raise a red flag but it shouldn't be a problem to say who you are because ultimately you want to be in accord with whatever the laws are. You definitely don't want to be left legally vulnerable.
As far as what is a wetland and what isn't... It seems crazy and lefty and over the top but the reality is that many amphibian species (various frogs and salamandars) require vernal pools to breed in and survive. So a vernal pool might hold a foot of water for a month of the year in the spring and be hard dry ground in August but it is an essential link in keeping these critters alive for the long run. That's why there can be a protected wetland in Death Valley (as someone mentioned). You've probably heard that salamandars and frogs that depend on vernal pools have lost a tremendous amount of habitat across the U.S. So it's good to know in general whether or not you are wiping out this kind of habitat when you make changes in your land and thats why the federal and state wetland protection can appear to reach into "dry" land.
Good luck with it, a 15 acre pond sounds like a great addition to your land.
-moss
http://ohioline.osu.edu/b374/b374_17.html
If your town has a Conservation Commission or something similar you might give them a call just to inquire about any local bylaws that could effect your project. You can always inquire anonymously if you don't want to raise a red flag but it shouldn't be a problem to say who you are because ultimately you want to be in accord with whatever the laws are. You definitely don't want to be left legally vulnerable.
As far as what is a wetland and what isn't... It seems crazy and lefty and over the top but the reality is that many amphibian species (various frogs and salamandars) require vernal pools to breed in and survive. So a vernal pool might hold a foot of water for a month of the year in the spring and be hard dry ground in August but it is an essential link in keeping these critters alive for the long run. That's why there can be a protected wetland in Death Valley (as someone mentioned). You've probably heard that salamandars and frogs that depend on vernal pools have lost a tremendous amount of habitat across the U.S. So it's good to know in general whether or not you are wiping out this kind of habitat when you make changes in your land and thats why the federal and state wetland protection can appear to reach into "dry" land.
Good luck with it, a 15 acre pond sounds like a great addition to your land.
-moss
1953greg
ArboristSite Guru
blueridgemark, copy that loud n clear. even the 4 agencies cant agree among themselves. they are n court against each other and usda has withdrawn from the 1985 cooperative agreement.
slipknot,
best advice is to be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY cooperative and apologic if the authoritives arrive. ignorance is no excuse but politeness wil get u along way n this case. as for the walnut stumps, i have no idea. sorry
slipknot,
best advice is to be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY cooperative and apologic if the authoritives arrive. ignorance is no excuse but politeness wil get u along way n this case. as for the walnut stumps, i have no idea. sorry
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'd say something like, "Crazy, isn't it?", but I think a better term would be "criminal"! 
Our Founding Fathers understood something that few understand today: Private property rights are one of the pillars of liberty. In fact, they understood it so well, they took it for granted and didn't do ENOUGH to protect them!
I'm all for careful stewardship of the environment, but I'd rather live free in a poluted world than as a slave in a green paradise.
Our Founding Fathers understood something that few understand today: Private property rights are one of the pillars of liberty. In fact, they understood it so well, they took it for granted and didn't do ENOUGH to protect them!
I'm all for careful stewardship of the environment, but I'd rather live free in a poluted world than as a slave in a green paradise.
