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"Occasionally I visit this site to see if anything of interest is happening in my neck of the woods and low and behold something appeared that tweaked my interest. I am compelled to respond to the latest mundane chatter that seems to always originate from someone in the Cincinnati, OH area. My comment, being a lowly hillbilly and probably not a personal acquaintance of the Cincinnati Chatterer's research associates, would be that a lot of sour grapes come from this individuals fingertips. What amuses me most about his/her diatribe is the venomous quantities of ineptness that this person bestows on companies that are extremely successful; the most likely explanation for those "barbs" relate to jealousy. Companies who care will take jobs at "cost" just to keep their employees employed during the nasty days of winter. Smile "big company" in the end you will win the ETHICAL AWARD!
 
Larry Hanks said:
"Occasionally I visit this site to see if anything of interest is happening in my neck of the woods and low and behold something appeared that tweaked my interest. I am compelled to respond to the latest mundane chatter that seems to always originate from someone in the Cincinnati, OH area. My comment, being a lowly hillbilly and probably not a personal acquaintance of the Cincinnati Chatterer's research associates, would be that a lot of sour grapes come from this individuals fingertips. What amuses me most about his/her diatribe is the venomous quantities of ineptness that this person bestows on companies that are extremely successful; the most likely explanation for those "barbs" relate to jealousy. Companies who care will take jobs at "cost" just to keep their employees employed during the nasty days of winter. Smile "big company" in the end you will win the ETHICAL AWARD!
Click to expand...

I guess you told me a thing or 2 Hanks. 1 post in 2 years and I am blessed with being the subject of your intellectual judgment. Hey an idiotic underbid is an idiotic bid. You must be a Davey boy guarding the roost. Go back into the hills and stew for a couple more years til you come up with another gem.
 
treevet said:
Turned out I didn't get this job from a regular client. I bid 2100.00 and since the guy was moving I guess he felt like getting a 2nd bid since our relationship is over.

He told me DAVEY TREE bid half of what I bid. I told him that was a comical price and since I live a few streets from it will be enjoyable to watch them lose their ass on the job. The guy wasn't a jerk about it just said money was a factor here. Man, no room for me to say hey I will come down some either so time to say thanks for calling and best of luck with your move.

I looked at this bid as 1. Job HAD to have a crane.....2. Huge uprooted 9'dia stump that who knows if the bottom roots on this healthy tree are still attached (and real thick and underground)....and 3. It HAD to be done by Sunday open house for selling it.

These things add up to me as "premium price". Also 4. the involvement with 4 foot dia by 50 feet solid oak pieces and the dirt filled root ball.

DAVEY TREE salesman did not see the obvious. Prob a desk jockey.

They were at the job at 8 oclock today with 4 men at least, a forestry unit chip truck with bucket, chipper, huge knuckle boom crane truck, pickup on a very tight street. By noon the truck was completely full of the top of the tree and the huge stem was still there as was the root ball at 4 oclock when they left.

They have an hour traveling time in highway traffic each way to their lot in Milford. That is 10 hours times 4 men or 40 man hours and they have most of the day tomorrow (if they are lucky and the root ball pulls out easily) not to mention all the huge boulders of stem to deal with (no lumber quality here and too big to get on a splitter) when they get back to their lot.

Hate to lose a job when it is your cultivated client, but if you do....makes you feel a little better when they take a major azz whipping on the job.

Cheers Davey. Who knows what they are doing....the small established guy....or the big box national company? There are only so many nice jobs around in the winter and they just totally ruined this one.
Click to expand...

There are two ways to look at it. As you know, your charge rate is the sum of variable costs (labour, fuel, sub contracts etc) and fixed costs (equipment leases, insurance, etc). One philosophy is that each job has to pay it's share of variable and fixed costs. The second philosophy is that a job only has to pay variable costs and a portion of the fixed costs.

Often in periods of slow work, companies will bid only to make variable costs as a way of keeping employees working. If you have enough retained earnings, you can keep operating this way for short periods of time.
 
BC WetCoast said:
There are two ways to look at it. As you know, your charge rate is the sum of variable costs (labour, fuel, sub contracts etc) and fixed costs (equipment leases, insurance, etc). One philosophy is that each job has to pay it's share of variable and fixed costs. The second philosophy is that a job only has to pay variable costs and a portion of the fixed costs.

Often in periods of slow work, companies will bid only to make variable costs as a way of keeping employees working. If you have enough retained earnings, you can keep operating this way for short periods of time.
Click to expand...

I will go along with that BUT when an entity (bad bidder, hack, good bidder making a huge mistake, etc.) bids an "idiotic" low bid it hurts the field IMO. Don't think word of conquests over inept bidders/services don't get out to the mainstream. After that it can knock down prices in an entire area. Not unlike a house in a nice neighborhood (similar house) going for a low dollar or even bankrupt sale/bid and what it does to the price of other houses.

I may be a little jealous not getting the job from a regular client (one that is moving though) but who knows why they are selling and money may be a huge object. But what irks me most is looking like I am taking liberties in our relationship and gouging a regular when it is THEM that is turning in the inept bid. Again word of this, as well, gets around in social circles.

Let's look at this from a dollars and cents perspective and it will be fairly apparent that they are not making "variable costs" as you put it.

They probably put in conservatively about 56 hours on this job. At 1000.00 dollars (half of what I bid....owner told me this and no need to fib) they are in the realm of less than 20.00 per man hour excluding expenditures. This also excludes the fact that a high dollar piece of equipment was on the job (crane) and also excludes the time spent dealing with the boulders of giant tree trunk and 10' root ball that hitched a ride back to their yard and also will have to be gotten rid of.

Everybody complains about hacks disturbing the status quo of pricing by competent tree services not to mention the quality of work but when a national company comes and does it is somehow a strategic move and worthy of the Nobel award for decency to employees.
 
any of you mutts got facebook? check out marquis tree service. some sweet action shots and a couple vids. become a fan if you'd like! good stuff.
 
oldirty said:
any of you mutts got facebook? check out marquis tree service. some sweet action shots and a couple vids. become a fan if you'd like! good stuff.
Click to expand...

I've seen your boys website before and there were some tight pics. I've been thinking of doing the bookface thing for awhile but haven't gotten around to it. Maybe I'll sign up and check it out.
 
Helped a friend work on his roof in the morning. In the afternoon I went to prune 2 ugly holly trees. Friend of mine says they'll take maybe an hour, to an hour and a half... so I said maybe $100 - $150 tops. Get there today, took me about 3 hrs to do the job for $100... not happy, but it was something to do I guess???

I did a job last summer, underbid 2 sugar maples for crown elevation. While I was there, a cherry tree went over from the previous nights' wind storm. UGLY sucker, all rotten wood, stump was ugly too. Lady had no money, said that the insurance company would pay to have it removed, and dirt / seed placed in the hole. I bid $2,200 for the job, because I needed a backhoe for the stump, and I'd have to pay to get rid of the wood. She got somebody else in there for $1,000 for the entire thing. Drove by in the fall, noticed that somebody wound up removing 1 of the 2 sugar maples I had previously pruned.
 
Yesterday we removed a large maple behind a house. Wraptored up the lead away from the house. Stripped all the limbs on straight fall on the way up. Swung over and did the house side and lowered off the away lead. No worries about going up top again as just went up with the wraptor again.

Today took down a large uprooting hackberry down an embankment I noticed while doing the previous day's tree. Again no climbing up the tree with the wraptor so had plenty of energy to move around the spread canopy and take out side leads. Again worked them right down to the stem and just went down to the ground so the gm could clean up easier....then later wraptored up with the line I left up top and finished.

You have no idea what a difference this device makes in a day or looking at jobs. Fri. and Sat we have a couple of giant 140 foot sycamores (no exaggeration) to deadwood. More of the same procedure.
 
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Pool job was kinda interesting as it was a real thick reinforced old school pool and the guy had a 3,000 lb. weight on the end of a chain for a swinging wrecking ball (?) and crashed the sides. Later the rental company guy was there for a repair and told him it was a no no.....but he was done already.
 
:):)Do want to liven up this old thread, treevet? What I saw was every-day stuff and a bored guy with the cable t.v. out thinking he would look cool!!:cheers:
Do you need some company or a pat on the back? What pics are you going to show us tomorrow? Can't wait till next week!! Well, you did bring it up.:confused:
Jeff, looking forward to tomorrow.
just messing with ya---am I?
 
treevet said:
I guess you told me a thing or 2 Hanks. 1 post in 2 years and I am blessed with being the subject of your intellectual judgment. Hey an idiotic underbid is an idiotic bid. You must be a Davey boy guarding the roost. Go back into the hills and stew for a couple more years til you come up with another gem.
Click to expand...

I bet Larry can spell= Idiotic!
Jeff:cheers:
 
jefflovstrom said:
:):)Do want to liven up this old thread, treevet? What I saw was every-day stuff and a bored guy with the cable t.v. out thinking he would look cool!!:cheers:
Do you need some company or a pat on the back? What pics are you going to show us tomorrow? Can't wait till next week!! Well, you did bring it up.:confused:
Jeff, looking forward to tomorrow.
just messing with ya---am I?
Click to expand...

9 times out of 10 I have no idea what you are saying and this is not the 1 per cent. Cable tv guy, look cool ???????

Every day stuff? Not for you, the last time you climbed was about a hundred thousand double cheeseburgers ago. :)
 

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