what do you think about this rad and the petzl i d

[skindaddy]

if you were to spend the money being a beginner, would you get this kit?
also can someone tell me the difference in this descender and the petzl I'd ?
my impression is the i'd is for advanced users and i dont know why
its a petzl rad kit

http://www.baileysonline.com/Arbori...ding-and-Descending-RAD-System---with-Rig.axd

or would you go all out on a rock exotica unicender?which you would still need additional pieces with that too!

 

[Hoowasat]

Petzl RIG will not accept 1/2" (13mm) rope whereas the I'D will. I love climbing SRT with the RAD and I use the I'D. Great unit which instills lots of confidence. Tried several other SRT systems, but the RAD has turned into my fav. I set myself up with a second RAD system because after others have seen me use it, they want to learn how ... easier to teach when side-by-side in the tree after going over the preliminaries low n' slow (on the ground).

EDIT TO ADD: It's often referred to as "RADS" ... meaning Rope Ascend & Descend System

Though the following video does not discuss RADS, it provides a good explanation on how the I'D functions ... and the anti-panic feature is a real plus, but I don't know if the RIG functions the same way.

 

[Hoowasat]

Let me also add that though I tried and liked a rope-walking system for SRT, I found it to be too gear-intensive. The RADS is good for working your way up a tree ... stopping several times to remove or trim limbs. OTOH, if I had a long climb with no stops along the way, I'd probably set up for rope-walking.

 

[kyle goddard]

IMO start old school. taught line and Blake's. Afterwards ask someone with the gear u would like to get to clime with them.

To add my two cent, I never liked the idea of the rads system. I'm a hitchhiker man my self. Set up with a rope walker. I chose the hitchhiker for its versatility.

 

[skindaddy]

thanks hoowasat,
it might make up my own rads kit like the link i had posted but use the petzl id instead, as i havent seen a kit with the ID in it.
to bad its a crap ton more $$ lol

no i need to find good videos with actual setup in working order, takes awhile to sort through the crappy vids on youtube

 

[Overwatch]

My first climbing system was RADS using a large i'D and I still continue to use it as my primary ascent system. The anti-panic mechanism of the i'D recommends it for beginning users against the rig- research shows that when perceiving a fall, instinct is to grip the control tighter which will accelerate the rate of descent- a dangerous sort of feedback loop.

The main problem with the i'D with regards to other descenders of this type is that the handle jacks around as the mechanism loads on each ascent cycle, gets in the way and generally becomes an annoyance. From what I understand, the rig doesn't suffer this issue. A grigri is another alternative.

A good review of these descenders:

 

[skindaddy]

how do you keep your handle out of the way on your setup, just deal with it?

 

[Hoowasat]

I leave my I'D handle pointed down, then flip it over to the other side when I need to lock it.

I cannot make out which device the climber is using in the following video ... can any of you?

 

[Hoowasat]

If the handle occasionally getting in the way is the biggest complaint, then IMHO it's no complaint at all when you consider the RIG has no panic stop feature ... something which may save your life versus dealing with an annoyance. I must confess that neither the handle position nor the panic stop feature were deciding factors for me. The large I'D was the only one I found that would work on my 1/2" (13mm) climbing ropes.

 

[Overwatch]

I leave my I'D handle pointed down, then flip it over to the other side when I need to lock it.

I cannot make out which device the climber is using in the following video ... can any of you?

I think he might be using an Eddy, which incidentally also has an anti-panic feature. Not sure on the ascender he's using.

The only time my i'D handle points down (towards it's carabiner) is when it's locked. It either sticks out perpendicular to the rope, or moves up on it's own during ascent. The handle moves upwards specifically when the device is loaded with weight.

It's possible to (accidentally) ascend with the handle in the down (locked) position, but it generates a bunch of friction...

 

[CanopyGorilla]

A lot of these devices are trickle down from rock climbing and rope rescue. If you are a professional user you should not need an anti panic system. IMO it teaches improper use. Learn to use your equipment correctly.

 

[Overwatch]

A pic of my usual rads configuration, set to ascend.

The big handle flopping around during ascent sometimes seem to come from a combination of the anti-panic mechanism and the footloop rubbing on the handle, allowing the handle to move into a position where it catches the cam when it rotates when being loaded. Ive been planning on replacing the i'D with a rig for some time and swapping the micropulley/carabiner out for a wiregate revolver.

 

[Overwatch]

A lot of these devices are trickle down from rock climbing and rope rescue. If you are a professional user you should not need an anti panic system. IMO it teaches improper use. Learn to use your equipment correctly.

I agree, if releasing a handle or hitch is counterintuitive during a perceived fall, it's something that can and should be corrected by repetition/practise.

 

[skindaddy]

which 1/2" rope would be good for the petzl id

 

[Hoowasat]

You'll need the LARGE Petzl I'D for 1/2" (13mm) rope, and since the I'D cam-locks to make a pinch point on the rope (no little hooks like most ascenders have), I doubt it really matters which "brand" of rope you use. I do not think you want to use a 3-strand type of rope in it. FWIW, my climbing ropes are all 16-strand Samson Arbormaster and they function well in the I'D with no issue.

 

[skindaddy]

ok was getting ready to pull the trigger on some rope and see that alot of people like poison ivy or blue moon but it is just under 1/2" i dont know if it is a good idea to use that with the petzl id as it is for 1/2"
might have to go with the arbormaster but i was thinkg the blue moon is a tougher rope?
i dont know i just want to do it once and not wish for another ya know

 

[Hoowasat]

The Petzl I'D L (Large) can only be used with 11.5mm to 13mm diameter ropes.
http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/D20L-IDL.pdf

Yale Poison Ivy rope is listed as 11.7mm diameter, so you should be OK. Samson Arbormaster (13mm dia.) is listed with slightly lower prices at a few online suppliers, and it's all I've ever used. It's proven to be tough stuff for me. I cannot offer an opinion on the Poison Ivy since I've never used it.

 

[Overwatch]

I have experienced occasional set-back when running Poison Ivy through a large i'D, likely due to small amounts of dirt on the rope. 13mm XTC (16 strand) grabs the i'D reliably but doesn't feed though as smoothly as Poison Ivy.