What is everyone thinking about oil?

[gtstang462002]

Also alchohol fuels burn cleaner than gasoline does, and will not affect a cat that I am aware of.

The only effect that it could have on a cat is that the cat can not burn off the excess from the lack of heat. Cat converters on a car work just like cat converters on a woodstove they burn off excess gasses with extreme heat that comes from the primary ignition.

 

[user 19670]

Have to disagree with several of your points here. Explosive is probably the wrong word to use here. Available potential energy is better. Ethanol is certainly energy poor compared to straight gas, but way more than half the value. Ethanol has almost exactly 2/3 the energy of gasoline. Methanol is about half. Ethanol also has better octane becasue it burns slower and more evenly, not becasue there is less energy available. Also alcohol fuels burn cleaner than gasoline does, and will not affect a cat that I am aware of.

Of course you are correct. My choice of words doesn't look right to me either. Explosive was a wrong choice but it sure gives one a mental image. Ethanol is harder to ignite either in free form or under compression. Harder to ignite / burns slower / burns cooler = higher octane. Yes, in pure form ethanol has higher octane than gasoline but the last time I checked octane didn't = horsepower. Regular straight gasoline and premium straight gasoline have the same amount of energy per unit.

I used to be in some 'alternative energy NGs' and remember close to 1/2 the energy, nothing as good as 2/3.

The 'cat forward' that I made reference to is what we are not allowed to just make changes to unless they are approved changes. Why I said that is because the cars we have now are the ones we have to deal with, not some mythical racing engine none of us use or possibly can possible own T O D A Y. In the future there are sure to be changes. Cat back, you can do whatever you want. Cat forward requires approved parts / procedures. We are unable to make fuel / air mix changes at all on our vehicles and THAT is one change you should make to burn a fuel like ethanal since you have to burn it at 7:1 ratio when gasoline burns at 15:1.

Ethanol also takes vast amounts of energy to make in the first place.
Also, transportation costs more since it cannot be sent by pipeline. It has to be sent by truck.

 

[ktm rider]

There is "Clean Coal" technology, Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Hydrogen powered cars, electric cars, etc.... All of these would be viable alternatives but still could not totally replace fossil fuel. Conservation is the key and it is all of our jobs to do this. I have already parked my Dodge diesel and now drive my Chevy Metro to work. I also burn wood and coal for heat ( like most others here)

I am also ging one step further and putting in a micro hydro turbine in the creek on my property. I will be able to make all the electrical power my home needs and then some. I will no longer have a electric bill and the maintenance is minimal. This will cost me roughly $5,000 which is about 1/4 of what wind power would cost.
i am mostly doing this because the power company is going to raise our rates in Md. 70% in the next 4 years..

 

[chowdozer]

I am also ging one step further and putting in a micro hydro turbine in the creek on my property.

Ok, I am envious. I want a creek. A mini hydro has been a dream of mine ever since I can remember.

 

[jdboy9]

I love the idea of hydro I wish I lived on a river or creek. I have a spring house that produces a lot of water if only I could pump it to a lake above because I have more than enough fall.

They need to come up with something that has zero loss of energy Come on someone figure it out already. If only that was available you could have two lakes and pump the water between the two and run the hydro

 

[ktm rider]

Yep, I'm sure glad I have the stream. the stream has a head of about 60 ft. a minumum of 150 gpm. By my calculations I should be able to make right around 650 KwH after factoring in pipe loss at a minimum. in the winter i could possibly be making over 1,000 KwH a month.

 

[user 19670]

You are sooooo right

I love the idea of hydro I wish I lived on a river or creek. I have a spring house that produces a lot of water if only I could pump it to a lake above because I have more than enough fall.

They need to come up with something that has zero loss of energy Come on someone figure it out already. If only that was available you could have two lakes and pump the water between the two and run the hydro

Fossil fuels are convenient for the suppliers AND for us until things change. Alternative fuels are just 'that' -- alternative. They remain alternative because of a couple of factors (of which I can only see some).
- Cost. Fossil fuel still is cheaper than any of the alternatives.
- Supply. Fossil fuel has a jealous network of suppliers that want to fortify their positions or they stand to loose everything.
- Distribution. In the case of the Grid, if we all had self contained supplies of electricity the Hydro Companies would be on the skids.

We do need a zero loss supply but . . .

I always come back to these thoughts:
Where will we get lubricants when all the oil is used up? How about the asphalt? Where will it come from?" How about the tires? After all, they haven't been made of rubber since Adam

Guess we are in big trouble :monkey:

 

[windthrown]

I am also ging one step further and putting in a micro hydro turbine in the creek on my property. I will be able to make all the electrical power my home needs and then some. I will no longer have a electric bill and the maintenance is minimal. This will cost me roughly $5,000 which is about 1/4 of what wind power would cost.
i am mostly doing this because the power company is going to raise our rates in Md. 70% in the next 4 years..

What type of micro hydro system are you looking at? I have been looking at pelton wheels myself. We have gobs of stream power here, with lots of drop and we get rain in winter when our electric bill is high (all our heating is OWB, but I would like to augment that with a pelton wheel driven heat pump).

 

[chowdozer]

What type of micro hydro system are you looking at? I have been looking at pelton wheels myself. We have gobs of stream power here, with lots of drop and we get rain in winter when our electric bill is high (all our heating is OWB, but I would like to augment that with a pelton wheel driven heat pump).

Hey Windthrown, if you got the water, you better get busy. Even if you could just run resistive heat from a hydro, I think it would be worthwhile. It may take awhile for a payoff, but I think the satisfaction of doing it would be cool too. What a learning experience.

 

[Zodiac45]

.

I have 47 acres 3/4 of it is woods and the rest fields. I might be jumping the gun some but I'm glad I have it because I think in the future we might need to be a bit more like the old days and produce our own stuff and live off the land a bit more then we are all used to. Anyone else feel this way?

.

I'm with ya Brother. I've expanded my vegetable garden every year for the past 5 and will again this year. We've got some hens, and a couple peacocks (guard dogs) and I'm thinking of a pig this year too. They are great for preping next years garden expansion.

Back too the thread. We've got a couple of wood chip fired power plants running up here. I'm not sure but I have to think they are not the most efficient way to produce electricity. That and the fact that the owners have raped some serious land too feed them. They take everything. It looks like the surface of the moon when they move off.

I'm trying to wrangle a wind turbine for the place here. They are still pricey though and there's zoning problems of some sort usually. I think I'd be ok due too my location (plenty of wind and not allot of close neighbors). We'll see.

 

[ktm rider]

Windthrown,

I am looking into the turgo wheels. they will seem to work best for my measurements. I especially like the ES&D Stream Engine. ( see link ) I have been looking into this for a few years now but I think am going to have to pull the trigger on it this summer. The electric company here is totally out of control and rates are going to go through the roof.

If you have plenty of head, I would not stop with just a heat pump. I would power your whole house first ( heat pump included) and get rid of that electric bill. even if the MH just cuts your electric bill in half it would be well worth it..

I have PLENTY more interesting links about micro hydro if you are interested
http://www.microhydropower.com/


Zodiac45,

I also looked into wind for quite a while. We also have plenty of wind ( there is a commercial wind farm going up right off my property line this summer )

They can get expensive in a hurry that is for sure. Have you seen the Skystream 3.7 ? it has the inverter built into it and the price isn't all that bad. I do know the waiting list is a bit ong though. My buddy put one up this past fall and he had to wait 6 months or so just to get the turbine.
But if you have any water source at all, micro hydro is the way to go for sure,

http://www.skystreamenergy.com/skystream/

 

[windthrown]

One neighbor here has four wind turbines, but only becasue he is off-grid. Says that they will never pay for themselves. We have pleanty of head and flow here. One site I could probably run a turbine or a pelton wheel year round. The distance to the house is an issue on that site though. Near the house I can get about a 5 month flow for a turbine and the wiring run is only 100 feet.

Problem here is selling back to the grid. No one has done it on the local co-op grid. So I am trying to design isolated sub-systems for lighting and the like. Maybe add a DC light and heat shunt system.

Electric grid here is all hydro, so when we get a lot of rain, the rates stay lower. More pressure to raise rates, as they are under pressure to sell it other places. So rates are up about 10% a year here. However, if we get a drought, then they will have to buy electricity from the grid, and that will be really expensive.

 

[retired redneck]

The american people, have had it to easy for to long. We could take a lesson from the amish and dunkers, maybe not to that extream but it is something to think about.

 

[jdboy9]

How much do one of those minihydro units run on average?

I wish I could utilize my spring house but its the lowest place on the property runs constant all year long too.

 

[ktm rider]

How much do one of those minihydro units run on average?
.

Depends on the model turbine you want to run. Usually right around $2,300. But the big expense is the penstock. (pipe) If you have long run to gain the needed amount of head the more it will cost ya. I will probably have around $5,500 in my system if i get it done soon.

 

[ktm rider]

Problem here is selling back to the grid. No one has done it on the local co-op grid. So I am trying to design isolated sub-systems for lighting and the like. Maybe add a DC light and heat shunt system.
.

No need or you to rack your brain trying to design your own system. The stand alone system has been used for years. As a matter of fact you can have a sytem that will use both the stand alone system AND the grid at once. the advantage to this is that if you are using more power than your making, you will simply use some grid power to supplement the stand alone system. Check out this site. for a good DC to AC system..

www.homepower.ca

 

[fourustircom]

6 degrees

Interesting show last night. Goes along with the discussion about what we're all going to do, actually our children. One idea was to QUIT EATING CHEESEBURGERS! A guy figured out what it took to make one, considering the raising of the feed to feed the beef to transportation, refrigeration, milk production for the cheese, vegitable production for the lettuce, grain production for the bun, etc. And Americans eat BILLIONS of them! They said the methane from the feedlots and dairy farms far exceeds the damage from CO2. We should be bagging that and burning it!

Another $.02 worth. How much is that now?

 

[Zodiac45]

No need or you to rack your brain trying to design your own system. The stand alone system has been used for years. As a matter of fact you can have a sytem that will use both the stand alone system AND the grid at once. the advantage to this is that if you are using more power than your making, you will simply use some grid power to supplement the stand alone system. Check out this site. for a good DC to AC system..

www.homepower.ca

Cool site KTM I'm on a waiting list at the moment with the State of Maine for a test site. Guy came around last year and approached poeple wth decent sites for a test home wind turbine feasability study. I signed up but haven't hear a peep since. He did front me a whole case of spiral florescent bulbs in 15w and 25w. So that was cool! My Brother is an Electrician and he's always telling me about new technology in small turbines and how well (or not) that they work.

Gordie-- I hear you about what's gonna happen in the future. I think we'll see allot of synthetics in some area's and in other's who knows? Maybe the lifestyle will revert back too a more agrarian/self sufficient type lifestyle, although the current population explosion will certainly put pressure on that. We will figure it out or we won't, but for sure there's another ice age cycle coming and global warming will cause it too come sooner rather than later, but no matter what, it's coming. These temperate cycles like the one we are in now are the exception rather than rule according to ice core studies

 

[Hansson]

hehe in sweden 1000L burning oil cost 1879 $. :greenchainsaw:

 

[retired redneck]

Simple INFORSED BIRTH CONTROLL , less people ,less problems. the chinese had the right idea. think about it,mother nature does it all the time. to many of one kind she plants a bug kills them down to a lesser amount then they start all over. Will she do it with HUMANS????????