What is the replacement value of my Crabapple?

[Janina5309]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

And honestly, to say that I don't have integrity is simply not justified. THEY removed the wrong tree, it is up to THEM to compensate me. If a replacement tree is the best way to compensate me, then sure, I will take it. I just thought it would be easier for the company and myself, for them to compensate me FAIRLY and offer me a CHOICE. I don't want to deal with them anymore! I've been dealing with them for months, I just want it to be over. If I get a replacement, this will go well into the spring when the ground thaws. From what I'm reading $100 is NOT fair (remember this is Canada where everything is more expensive), I doubt this is what the tree would even be wholesale around here (he originally said the tree was likely worth $180 wholesale). Plus, there is the cost of delivery and installation that they have not included. I feel that they are taking advantage of me and trying to pin this on me, "well, you didn't want the tree anyway", this is simply NOT TRUE, but now that it is gone, I feel like they should let me have the decision of whether or not I want it replaced. Even if I did have it replaced, I wouldn't have crabapples (or an amount equivalent to the crop of my original crabapple) for at least 2-3 years. I did use these crabapples for liqueur, so now I can't do that anymore until the tree sets a good crop again. I am more than willing to take amount equivalent to the wholesale cost of the tree, plus half of the labour costs. I think this is more than fair, and should be an easy compromise, since they will come out spending less money on it than actually replacing it.

I haven't been able to get an estimate for a replacement since everyone is off for the holidays, so I'll get that in the new year. The only thing I could find thus far is an add on kijiji for $300 per 8-12 ft tree (have to order a minimum of 3 trees, this includes delivery, install and warranty). This add says this price is "well below wholesale". What's the mark-up of the wholesale price of trees in garden centers?

I'm trying to find out what steps the company would have to take (or should take) for replacing the tree. Now that this company seems like they have nothing to lose, since they #####ed up so bad, I don't trust them to not do a half assed job. They say they have "a reputation to maintain", but thus far they haven't done a good job of living up to this from the very beginning.

First of all, the only access into the yard is a 2 foot wide fence. To bring in a new crabapple tree, would they have to remove a section of the fence to accomodate any machinery (like a bobcat or something?). It doesn't seem to me that carrying a crabapple of a 4" caliper into the yard by hand would be easy since the rootball would be fairly heavy. I'm also wondering if there would be any damage to my lawn from this machinery.

Also, should the rootball of the original tree be removed? Or would the stump just be ground down, and the new tree planted beside it? I don't know what the procedure is for this. Wouldn't this be a labour intensive all day thing?

Could you please comment on my questions, not the integrity of myself or the company I'm dealing with? I feel that this thread has drifted significantly from the original point, right off the bat. I came to this site for answers, not insults

 

[Tree Pig]

Truth hurts? If you were truly looking to just compensate your self for the loss of the tree drive to a nursery and price a replacement tree. I honestly think you already did this and found out its not as much as you want. You are just trying to get every penny out of the guy for his mistake. $300 for a Dolgo if you pay that then I have some trees I would like to sell you. I agree 100% you suffered a loss and deserve compensation. I also agree that the $100 he offered was too low. But honestly if you werent a cheap SOB just trying to get every nickel you would not be on here asking for free advice. Pay an arborist for an assessment or make a deal with the guy. I think you had too much of your crabapple wine.

 

[treeclimber101]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

And honestly, to say that I don't have integrity is simply not justified. THEY removed the wrong tree, it is up to THEM to compensate me. If a replacement tree is the best way to compensate me, then sure, I will take it. I just thought it would be easier for the company and myself, for them to compensate me FAIRLY and offer me a CHOICE. I don't want to deal with them anymore! I've been dealing with them for months, I just want it to be over. If I get a replacement, this will go well into the spring when the ground thaws. From what I'm reading $100 is NOT fair (remember this is Canada where everything is more expensive), I doubt this is what the tree would even be wholesale around here (he originally said the tree was likely worth $180 wholesale). Plus, there is the cost of delivery and installation that they have not included. I feel that they are taking advantage of me and trying to pin this on me, "well, you didn't want the tree anyway", this is simply NOT TRUE, but now that it is gone, I feel like they should let me have the decision of whether or not I want it replaced. Even if I did have it replaced, I wouldn't have crabapples (or an amount equivalent to the crop of my original crabapple) for at least 2-3 years. I did use these crabapples for liqueur, so now I can't do that anymore until the tree sets a good crop again. I am more than willing to take amount equivalent to the wholesale cost of the tree, plus half of the labour costs. I think this is more than fair, and should be an easy compromise, since they will come out spending less money on it than actually replacing it.

I haven't been able to get an estimate for a replacement since everyone is off for the holidays, so I'll get that in the new year. The only thing I could find thus far is an add on kijiji for $300 per 8-12 ft tree (have to order a minimum of 3 trees, this includes delivery, install and warranty). This add says this price is "well below wholesale". What's the mark-up of the wholesale price of trees in garden centers?

I'm trying to find out what steps the company would have to take (or should take) for replacing the tree. Now that this company seems like they have nothing to lose, since they #####ed up so bad, I don't trust them to not do a half assed job. They say they have "a reputation to maintain", but thus far they haven't done a good job of living up to this from the very beginning.

First of all, the only access into the yard is a 2 foot wide fence. To bring in a new crabapple tree, would they have to remove a section of the fence to accomodate any machinery (like a bobcat or something?). It doesn't seem to me that carrying a crabapple of a 4" caliper into the yard by hand would be easy since the rootball would be fairly heavy. I'm also wondering if there would be any damage to my lawn from this machinery.

Also, should the rootball of the original tree be removed? Or would the stump just be ground down, and the new tree planted beside it? I don't know what the procedure is for this. Wouldn't this be a labour intensive all day thing?

Could you please comment on my questions, not the integrity of myself or the company I'm dealing with? I feel that this thread has drifted significantly from the original point, right off the bat. I came to this site for answers, not insults

I think at this point you may wanna visit an attorney forum .... But seriously though why dont you get an est. for a 3" replacement from another company I guarantee though it will be much higher than 100.00

 

[Tree Pig]

I think at this point you may wanna visit an attorney forum .... But seriously though why dont you get an est. for a 3" replacement from another company I guarantee though it will be much higher than 100.00

Thats why she is here, she already did and was not happy with the value.

 

[Janina5309]

Wow, really.... I'm just not going to partake anymore in some of the narcissistic attitudes on this forum.... this is just not the way I do business with my clients (we would have very few clients if we did business this way).

Anyways, here are the quotes from a local nursery and a company that installs trees who actually answered the phone.
Here is a copy of the email I'm about the send to the company. Please remember this is Canada and we pay SO much more than you would in the states (General labour is payed out at $25-$30/hr here in Calgary (Heavy labour would be on the higher end). If there are any Canadian arborists on this thread, I would like to hear their input on the costs.

"I called around for estimates from other companies who provide a tree planting service of large trees. I was told that $100 wholesale for a crabapple tree was likely to be a very small tree, likely of a 1" caliper. This would not require a bobcat to plant, thereby making it an inexpensive way to replace the tree. However, I was under the impression that my tree would be replaced with a tree of an equivalent size which was of a 3.75" to 4" caliper. I make crabapple liqueur every year and even the planting of a tree of an equivalent size would result in a much smaller crop for at least a couple of years. A 1" crab would take many years to provide an crop of an equivalent size to the original.

Here are quotes I got from a local nursery on Wholesale Dolga Crabapple trees.

$110 - wholesale price for a #10 pot tree (Markup is $139)
$428 - Wholesale price for a 3.5" caliper tree (Markup is $535)
$495 - wholesale price for a 4" caliper Tree (Markup is $620)

I was given an estimate of approx 6-8 hours to plant this tree. A company gave me an estimate of $600 to $700 to do this, which I think is on the low side. I was told that these are the steps to replace the tree of an equivalent size of a 3.5" to 4.0" Caliper tree in my yard:
-Removal of fence for access for bobcat
-grinding down of original stump
-Digging and planting tree
-Replacing fence

It seems to me that replacing this tree would likely cost more than the original job was quoted on (the $290). I ask that you please reassess this latest invoice."

 

[treeclimber101]

Wow, really.... I'm just not going to partake anymore in some of the narcissistic attitudes on this forum.... this is just not the way I do business with my clients (we would have very few clients if we did business this way).

Anyways, here are the quotes from a local nursery and a company that installs trees who actually answered the phone.
Here is a copy of the email I'm about the send to the company. Please remember this is Canada and we pay SO much more than you would in the states (General labour is payed out at $25-$30/hr here in Calgary (Heavy labour would be on the higher end). If there are any Canadian arborists on this thread, I would like to hear their input on the costs.

"I called around for estimates from other companies who provide a tree planting service of large trees. I was told that $100 wholesale for a crabapple tree was likely to be a very small tree, likely of a 1" caliper. This would not require a bobcat to plant, thereby making it an inexpensive way to replace the tree. However, I was under the impression that my tree would be replaced with a tree of an equivalent size which was of a 3.75" to 4" caliper. I make crabapple liqueur every year and even the planting of a tree of an equivalent size would result in a much smaller crop for at least a couple of years. A 1" crab would take many years to provide an crop of an equivalent size to the original.

Here are quotes I got from a local nursery on Wholesale Dolga Crabapple trees.

$110 - wholesale price for a #10 pot tree (Markup is $139)
$428 - Wholesale price for a 3.5" caliper tree (Markup is $535)
$495 - wholesale price for a 4" caliper Tree (Markup is $620)

I was given an estimate of approx 6-8 hours to plant this tree. A company gave me an estimate of $600 to $700 to do this, which I think is on the low side. I was told that these are the steps to replace the tree of an equivalent size of a 3.5" to 4.0" Caliper tree in my yard:
-Removal of fence for access for bobcat
-grinding down of original stump
-Digging and planting tree
-Replacing fence

It seems to me that replacing this tree would likely cost more than the original job was quoted on (the $290). I ask that you please reassess this latest invoice."

Seems to me our work is done here .... Good luck with the ass raping of that poor bastard , after reading a few of your posts I would label you in my book with a huge red flag ...... And furthermore your the kinda of customer that makes this business a joy to be in .....

 

[rbtree]

There you have it, Janina.... A whole bunch of responses you got, and few intimated that the costs involved in properly replacing this tree could be way over $1000, as your post just showed.

Send the company that letter, and if they refuse to make it right, get an attorney. They'll should settle with you when they are warned with treble damages...which is your right in court.

 

[treeclimber101]

I think I summed it all up with my est. of 2 bajillion dollars :biggrin:

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I would show up with another guy and me, a ball cart, and shovels and a digging bar. Dig the old one out and slam a new one in 3 hrs or less. The estimates are bs. If i was the contractor, i would just plant you a new tree and be done with you.

 

[Grouchy old man]

IMO if you don't want the tree replaced you are only entitled to the value of a comparable (same size and species) tree, which would be what it could be purchased for now and would be the lowest of three retail prices. You didn't plant it so you can't get anything for that

If you want it replaced in the exact same place you would be entitled to the value as above plus installation.

If you wanted it replaced but in a different location you would be entitled to less than if you wanted to put it back where it was. This is because you would be taking advantage of the situation to improve whatever you didn't like about the old tree or location.

Just looking at this as an impartial observer as I would be if I sat on a jury hearing this.

 

[treemandan]

In your first post you said that now that the tree is gone....."I'd rather not have it replaced (it was in front of my garden casting shade and don't have room for it elsewhere on the property".

Now you are saying that you want it replaced.

We all know what you really want..........you want to capitalize big time on someone's mistake.

You ought to tell us who the company was that removed your tree so we can invite them to join in the discussion.

Right. The tree company should just slap another tree in so we don't have to listen to this.

 

[Toddppm]

That estimate to install is ridiculous. No need for a bobcat or big machinery. Not sure if he actually did the rest of the work as he was supposed to do but if so, I'd say calling it even at this point should be about right if you haven't paid. No stump included. I wouldn't say you should be entitled to a same size tree for something you didn't want, but who knows what shape it was in?

Yeah, I removed a wrong tree last year at a job we were doing multiple things at., totally my fault. Finished what we were supposed to do, planted a new/much better tree and still got shafted. Oh well, that's the breaks and I took my lumps.


edit: Just re-read that install price was for a 4" tree, that would be reasonable for that size but looks like they included stump removal and planting in the same spot? You didn't want it there right? Haven't seen too many 4" Crabapple trees worth a damn , what kind of condition was yours in? I'd guess poor and diseased. Buy a new smaller one with the money you saved not paying and you'll likely have a better variety. They grow fast when small.