What kills Powder Post beetles?

[Duane Broussard]

I've been told that the powder post beetle can only be killed with cyanide. And of course that you have to have a license to handle or purchase the chemical. I have no interest in handling this level of poison anyway. It is my understanding that the powder post beetle larva (after being hatched in the bored hole), is responsible for doing most of the damage to wood, evident by the small pin holes with a black discoloration. And that they can lay dormant for many months. If this is so and you build furniture with this wood, will these little guys begin their deteriorating the wood even after stain, polyurethane etc...? WHAT KILLS THESE GUYS? Anyone have any info on this?
Thanks!
Duane

 

[trimmmed]

Kiln drying will get them. The wood needs to be brought up to a certain temp (120* I think) and held at the temp for a certain time period.

 

[Duane Broussard]

Kiln drying... that stands to reason due to it being the moisture (or the wet wood) that they are getting the nutrition they survive on from. Surely there is some type of poison out there other than cyanide that will kill them. Someone said that plugging their holes would work because it would take away their oxygen.

 

[Gumnuts]

Depends on how much timber you wish to protect or salvage.What quantity ?
If its for
A/ furniture making and where talking about seasoned timbers that your processing , cutting and dressing.
B/ Or green timber ie slabs cants or boards.
c/ Seasoned beams or structural pieces.Internal or external use.

industrial Timber Preservation by J.G.Wilkinson
HBK. HBK.
9780852271032.
Published After 1979

Kiln drying is an excellent method,if you got a kiln.Otherwise pricey or if you have the time an space to make one.
For seasoned pieces of timber critters I've use Rentokil
BORER insecticide (from the hardware-not cheap)diluted with metholated spirits.Metho ,kerosene, or white spirits are good.Spirits on their own will help suffocate the critters.
Paint it on liberally to let it soak.It has to penetrate.Do it after you have dressed or if not use dust extractors or mask when dressing.POISON !!!
On seasoned dressed timber i generally give one heavy dose of mix then follow with just spirits brush wash to soak.Kero is poison to them and so is
the hydro carbons of white spirit.
A,B and C have differant ways of going about it.I elaborated on A cause you mentioned Poly......
If its in the stack let them have a munch till your ready to use it.Then cut
em out and or zap em with mix.
If its a choice piece you need for a project you can even get a seringe from the pharmacy(large one and inject holes with mix)

Had a mate who lay a seasoned slab, in his home ,for a drinks bar top. Looked great.Mahogany and pollied.
Year later ,he went scitso at his son for drilling a couple of holes in it -till he realized .........
FORUM SEARCH WILL PROBABLY REVEAL MORE-ALL THE BEST
- Graeme

 

[Duane Broussard]

Gumnuts - I certainly appreciate your toxic input in my quest for assasination of the pesty beetle. I assume you have implemented this concoction successfully yourself at some point?

 

[Mad Professor]

Borates (boric acid) on the surface will keep them out of the wood but will do little if the little buggers are already inside. Boric acid is relatively non-toxic to humans.

 

[Duane Broussard]

Thanks Professor. May be a good thing to do ahead of time. I've just got a few they've already gotten into.

 

[timhar]

Kiln drying... that stands to reason due to it being the moisture (or the wet wood) that they are getting the nutrition they survive on from. Surely there is some type of poison out there other than cyanide that will kill them. Someone said that plugging their holes would work because it would take away their oxygen.

No disrespect Duane, but nothing in your post is true.
PPB only infest dry wood, never wet. The kiln kills them through heat when the core temp of the wood is held at 130 degrees and stays there for 6 hours. Plugging holes does not deprive them of oxygen and will do nothing to kill them. I have never heard of cyanide working either. As mentioned, Borate will prevent them from entering the wood but doesn't kill the eggs already in the wood.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

They only SURE way that i know of, is a kiln... Except i've always heard the temp had to reach 140* min..

Rob

 

[Mad Professor]

If you want more information on PPBs go woodweb.com, the sawing and drying forum. It is moderated by Dr. Gene Wengert, a professor. Do a search on PPBs and you will have hours of reading. There are different species of PPBs whose lives and means of control differ. Enjoy

P.S. no disrespect for this forum just pointing everyone in the right direction for the best information.

 

[woodshop]

If you want more information on PPBs go woodweb.com, the sawing and drying forum. It is moderated by Dr. Gene Wengert, a professor...

This is where I get the majority of my information on wood also. Be prepared to sink hours into reading as it has so much good info. Of course, I'm a wood junkie so I should know better when I don't have that time.

 

[MotorSeven]

A little off subject, but i built my first log house out of southern yellow pine that had been killed by pine beetles. It took a year & a half to complete. One evening i was sitting in the great room & kept hearing a scratching noise. I thought i was going nuts but after several days i tracked down the source. Yep, it was the beetle hatchlings boring their way out, Some came thru the inside walls, thru the polyurethane(
4 coats), left a pile of sawdust & flew off to find a mate. I guess in a finished piece of furniture they could scar it up, but for the log house it was "vacuum & forget it". But heck, the logs were free!
RD

 

[scottr]

I've been told that the powder post beetle can only be killed with cyanide. And of course that you have to have a license to handle or purchase the chemical. I have no interest in handling this level of poison anyway. It is my understanding that the powder post beetle larva (after being hatched in the bored hole), is responsible for doing most of the damage to wood, evident by the small pin holes with a black discoloration. And that they can lay dormant for many months. If this is so and you build furniture with this wood, will these little guys begin their deteriorating the wood even after stain, polyurethane etc...? WHAT KILLS THESE GUYS? Anyone have any info on this?
Thanks!
Duane

I remember that it is necessary to bring the wood up to 130dgf for six hours.

 

[carvinmark]

I have killed them by pouring lacquer thinner on the wood and brushing it around. It seems to work.
I installed fake rafter poles in a house once and about 3 months later I had to replace them for a very pissed off customer, it all worked out fine, but hit me in the pocket book.
I have mine kiln dried for the most part and that eliminates the little b*stards.

 

[Mike Van]

A few things I've seen on stored lumber - The beetles seem to go into the sap wood first, so edging or trimming lumber before storing is a good idea. They like cherry & hickory a lot - I had some Catalpa I sawed about 10 years ago, they got this so bad I cut it up & burned it in the evap. to make syrup. When I split some of it, there were big clouds of white dust -

 

[Duane Broussard]

Ok... here's my next question. If these little rascals need seriopus heat to kill, then what will be my average cost at drying in a kiln at 130 to 150 degrees for 6 hours??

 

[timhar]

Kiln rates are regional, so only someone near you can give you the answer. Here is what is involved though:
The wood will need to be stacked and stickered, either in the kiln or at the kiln operators staging area.
The wood will move into the kiln and then the kiln will need to be brought up to 130 degrees. Depending on the kiln type, that can take from a few hours to a couple days.
The wood has to soak at that temperature for six hours.
Some kilns have a cool down period, but I suspect in LA there is not a big thermal shock going from 130 degrees to ambient temp. this time of year.
Wood needs to be unstickered which means unstacking it and restacking it dead stacked.
So in essence, there is a lot of time and labor involved, therefore I expect it will cost pretty much what normal cycle kiln drying costs, which can range from 20 cents per bdft to 50 cents or more.
Additionally, unless you have enough quantity to fill the kiln, you may have to have the lumber taken through the whole drying cycle anyhow as you would be piggybacked on to another customers lumber to round out the kiln load.

That said, there are kilns that specialize in sterilizing pallets from critters like these for international shipment and they go through the whole process in a day. They are usually big pallet producers and I don't know if they would welcome your business or treat you like a gnat. I don't even know where to begin to tell you where to find out that type of information, but given LA's prominence in the shipping business, there must be some near you, I would think. Perhaps the yellow pages under "pallet"?

 

[timhar]

Daune,
I have been in Louisiana and I KNOW it can get hot there! You could probably build a makeshift solar kiln from sticks and black plastic and cook the critters yourself. Sticker the lumber and add a fan so the heat can penetrate the pile, put a thermometer in there and keep an eye on your progress. Remember, it's not when the air temp hits 130 that you start counting, rather, when the lumber reaches that temp that the process begins.

 

[Mad Professor]

One other thought depending on the kiln and if equipment (e.g. forklift/loader) is available. We used a metal bander to band a whole stack of stickered lumber. The whole stack could then be moved with equipment, possibly in/out of a kiln.

P.S. If you are going to kiln it anyway why not pay a few $$$ more and get things down to final MC too?

 

[Duane Broussard]

All sounds great. Now.... a makleshift kiln... I like that idea. Solar?? Now I need to know where and what type of solar panels is required to create this level of heat. If course, anyone knows that in the dead of summer here in Louisiana it can get to 105 degrees. So enclosing anything could bring a temp of 120+ without any other heat source other than the sun.
But 150 degrees?... Tell me what what panels to get. Or maybe someone has a "plan" on a makeshift solar kiln.
Thanks for the info and help in advance,
Duane