What's the big deal with the big dogs?

[James Sawyer]

No... I have half wrap saws too! Full wrap saws are heavier they aren't for everyone, and they are couple hundred dollars more in cost. Those east Coast guy that like low stumps... I guess the 3/4 wraps handlebars get in the way for them... they don't need long bars or big dwgs. I don't know but they must have a lot more women running loose in their timber if they think us PNW guys are trying to impress someone with big west coast dwg. Not sure about you guys but I don't like carrying my saw around... if I don't have to! In most case a west coast 3/4 wrap saw is more than just the handlebars, you're paying for a bigger chip guard, better/higher volume oiler, better chain catch, etc. If you don't need a 3/4 wrap setup, why spend more money, suffer the extra weight all day long, every day of your life you own that saw... that just nonsense! Not sure who going be impressed around here most pretty much work alone in the brush and if you're working close with someone...they have same type of saw you have. For sure... not everyone needs those big dwg's but there are reasons some people do! Some of us just have different needs, those dwg's are sharp, jump off log with saw that slips off you're shoulder...you're wish you had short dwg's. Those big dwg's dig into you truck bed, bed mat etc. Try sliding your saw in/out of your truck... we don't use them for looks they are not without issues.

 

[david newbie]

This explains why I cant get a girl friend!!!! ( plus not sure if my wife would approve)

 

[ZeroJunk]

I have used quite a few saws just working on them. Some had no do dawgs . Some factory. And, some I bought aftermarket. Never remember a problem with them being too long.

I guess, is there anything ya'll won't ***** about ?

 

[Chevboy0167]

Hail to the king, baby!

 

[pdqdl]

Not sure what the benefit is of big dogs and having 2 sets of dogs

Honestly the oversized dog thing has gotten out of hand.

If all you are doing is cutting firewood or nuisance trees, then you might not want double spikes or long ones. Try doing some commercial service with the itty-bitty spikes. I dare you to try doing a flush-cut to the ground on a 7 foot wide silver maple without that outer spike. Those trees have a huge root flare for just a modestly large tree. The spikes don't really need to be long, but you will need to match the outer spike with the other side, close to the case. Since you aren't even going to try that with a full wrap saw, now you will learn how hard it is to run a big saw pushing with the top of the bar for those big stumps next to the house foundation or the fence. Or maybe you'd like to try making a bore cut with a 36" bar when the bore is going in right beside and parallel to the chainlink fence?

The diagonal cut on a Humbolt is almost upside down for the saw. Really hard cut to make without dogs that are at least a bit longer than what comes on most saws.

I seldom do Humbolt, but whenever I try it without a saw that doesn't have the nice big double spikes, I usually decide that I didn't really need to use that cut. Especially on the upside down cut on the left side when you are pushing against the top of the bar. Without the big bite and double spikes, it really sucks.

IMO west coast dogs and full wrap handles are only for guys who fall big timber on side hills, everyone else who buys that stuff is doing it because they think it looks cool.

No. See notes above. Besides, who thinks they look cool? They look like a great way to spike yourself in the legs (or shoulder) when you are carrying the saw.

The big dawg thing is silly, You definitely lose to much bar. I just picked up the factory matching outer spike for my 462. It’s perfect and how the pro saws should come to start with.

I don't see too much need for extended length spikes, but both sides is a big benefit. The big spikes are huge gain when you get on the root flare and the pulling spikes disappear down into a cavity between the roots. The longer spikes help to grab some wood to pull against. Most guys doing commercial work have a saw dedicated to gnawing through big stumps anyway. Keep the big double spikes on that saw.

No... I have half wrap saws too! Full wrap saws are heavier they aren't for everyone, and they are couple hundred dollars more in cost. Those east Coast guy that like low stumps... I guess the 3/4 wraps handlebars get in the way for them... they don't need long bars or big dwgs.

Full wrap saws I don't need. I seldom need a humboldt cut, and I'm not ever saving the timber. Low-cut stumps are a huge reduction in time burned up if you are planning on grinding the stump for the lawn mowers to go over. Full wrap doesn't help at all on that kind of cutting.

 

[capetrees]

I have a single side WC dog on my 440 for cutting low on the big tree root flares so I can cut as low as possible if they don't want to grind or pull the stump

 

[Bill G]

NSEric, You have obviously never used a chainsaw with a full wrap handle bar before? I own two Sachs-Dolmar 120 supers and my 266XP also has a full wrap handle! And you have way better control of the saw. They are rare to come across which makes them appealing to guys such as myself, who owns a chainsaw collection of around 140 vintage awesome looking chainsaws personally! And what the hell! You might as well look cool while you're cutting! I live just west of Portland Oregon and I have an arborist supply me with old growth Douglas fir for the past three years now! And my extra driveway is full of very large rounds of the beautiful stuff! Talk about a paradise for someone with as many saws as I have! Time to chase the spiders out of the exaust pipes!

You have 140. That is a nice number but keeping going. There are many more out there in the PNW

 

[Bill G]

If all you are doing is cutting firewood or nuisance trees, then you might not want double spikes or long ones. Try doing some commercial service with the itty-bitty spikes. I dare you to try doing a flush-cut to the ground on a 7 foot wide silver maple without that outer spike. Those trees have a huge root flare for just a modestly large tree. The spikes don't really need to be long, but you will need to match the outer spike with the other side, close to the case. Since you aren't even going to try that with a full wrap saw, now you will learn how hard it is to run a big saw pushing with the top of the bar for those big stumps next to the house foundation or the fence. Or maybe you'd like to try making a bore cut with a 36" bar when the bore is going in right beside and parallel to the chainlink fence?

What saws are you running?
You got any pics?

 

[bwalker]

If all you are doing is cutting firewood or nuisance trees, then you might not want double spikes or long ones. Try doing some commercial service with the itty-bitty spikes. I dare you to try doing a flush-cut to the ground on a 7 foot wide silver maple without that outer spike. Those trees have a huge root flare for just a modestly large tree. The spikes don't really need to be long, but you will need to match the outer spike with the other side, close to the case. Since you aren't even going to try that with a full wrap saw, now you will learn how hard it is to run a big saw pushing with the top of the bar for those big stumps next to the house foundation or the fence. Or maybe you'd like to try making a bore cut with a 36" bar when the bore is going in right beside and parallel to the chainlink fence?


I seldom do Humbolt, but whenever I try it without a saw that doesn't have the nice big double spikes, I usually decide that I didn't really need to use that cut. Especially on the upside down cut on the left side when you are pushing against the top of the bar. Without the big bite and double spikes, it really sucks.


No. See notes above. Besides, who thinks they look cool? They look like a great way to spike yourself in the legs (or shoulder) when you are carrying the saw.


I don't see too much need for extended length spikes, but both sides is a big benefit. The big spikes are huge gain when you get on the root flare and the pulling spikes disappear down into a cavity between the roots. The longer spikes help to grab some wood to pull against. Most guys doing commercial work have a saw dedicated to gnawing through big stumps anyway. Keep the big double spikes on that saw.



Full wrap saws I don't need. I seldom need a humboldt cut, and I'm not ever saving the timber. Low-cut stumps are a huge reduction in time burned up if you are planning on grinding the stump for the lawn mowers to go over. Full wrap doesn't help at all on that kind of cutting.

I agree with everything you wrote. With that said huge dogs on joe users saw is about like putting 24" rims on your 3/4 ton diesel. I would wager that many of these guys don't ever line up a cut on a Humboldt or have to deal with butt flare.

 

[david newbie]

hese guys don't ever line up a cut on a Humboldt or have to deal with butt flair.

Never been an issue for me, , although I have seen a LOT of butt flare while on vacation ( I don't mind)

 

[pdqdl]

What saws are you running?
You got any pics?

I don't take pictures of my tools.
I carve my company initials in them, fill in the grooves with marker paint, and then I use them until somebody steals them. Or runs over them with a truck. Or whatever else becomes of a work saw.

 

[Sidecarflip]

The big dawg thing is silly, You definitely lose to much bar. I just picked up the factory matching outer spike for my 462. It’s perfect and how the pro saws should come to start with.

I agree 100% Must have something to do with an undersized member or something... I agree, Echo dogs are puny but I rarely use them as a sharp loop with properly set rakers will self feed anyway. Far as I'm concerned all they are good for is leveraging a dull chain into wood and making sawdust and not swarf. None of my Echo or Stihl top handles came with them and I have no desire to add them anyway. I can make my own here in the shop if necessary, Plot them and cut them on the CNC plasma table in about a couple minutes. Material is no object either, can be hot rolled steel or cold rolled or even aluminum or stainless, whatever conducts electricity is good for me. Any size I want, Problem is, I don't want.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I don't take pictures of my tools.
I carve my company initials in them, fill in the grooves with marker paint, and then I use them until somebody steals them. Or runs over them with a truck. Or whatever else becomes of a work saw.

That is me 100%. The demise of my Stihl top handle professional top handle (expensive) saw and how it met it's demise and was tossed in the trash. Nothing salvageable after a close encounter with the duals on a loaded chipper truck. Only used it 4 times and junk. Candidly, I was pretty bummed out thinking about the 700 clams down the dumper. Thinking about turning it into the insurance, problem is, I have a grand deductible anyway.

Why I bought the Echo top handle Arborist saw. Much cheaper and runs as well (after a few simple mods like getting rid of the CAT muffler and removing the external plastic baffle over the carb throat, whatever the purpose of that I haven't a clue) but with a few simple mods to increase power, it's equal to the Stihl and cost me a couple hundred less to boot and with a 12" bar, it's actually lighter than the Stihl was. Never even pulled the limiter caps as Echo sets most of their saws rich anyway. 4 strokes real nice at WOT but vanishes once it's in the wood. Just like my Timber Bear does and it got a muffler mod and Stokel Stack pleated air cleaner/velocity stack as well as the 5 degree offset crank key.. That too runs great. Pulls a 20" bar with full tooth chipper in a rip cut in seasoned hardwood, no issue. Of course with a sharp loop being mandatory. I do need to upgrade the ignition module to the one on the next up sized saw however. The ignition module limits the WOT rpm too much.

I have to say, I'm fully weaned off Stihl saws now. Not that I don't have a couple but Echo's are much less expensive and I'm inherently frugal anyway.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Really rare for me to fall a tree. They seem to have a habit of falling by themselves. I have 30 acres of hardwoods and a couple of fence lines with one red oak I bet the root flare is ten feet. Hell, it's 8 at breast height or whatever ya'll call it.

But, even slicing up a four foot oak to noodle in to quarters so you can split it, double dawgs are nice.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Not sure what the benefit is of big dogs and having 2 sets of dogs? I tend to prefer shorter bars. I have a 372oe/365OE hybrid and usually a 20" bar. I use the smaller single 365 dogs, and realized I lose 1.5 inches of bar. I measured my 385/390 hybrid and noticed I lose 3 inches of bar! What's the benefit of going big ( other than impressing the chicks and ducklings?)

Same thing as a 700hp Dodge Charger.

 

[SteveInOregon]

West Coast in Oregon here.

I specialize in dead standing beatle kill pines & fir, some 4+ft wide standing near customers homes garbage etc ......Im 61, weak with busted shoulder ligaments , bigger than stock double dogs are mandatory for me as I can just plug the saw into the thick bark and cut my way around, also it will hang horizontally much better with bigger than stock double Ds.

The after market DD's with a long straight dog that lines up straight with the bar can also be used as a gunning site.

I put dogs modified to fit on my baby limbing saw such as my 16" Echo helps me one stay on the cut and use less energy to work the woods. Anything to cheat to help my pathetic broken body get through the day... VIDEO LINK.



cheers

 

[Bill G]

I don't take pictures of my tools.
I carve my company initials in them, fill in the grooves with marker paint, and then I use them until somebody steals them. Or runs over them with a truck. Or whatever else becomes of a work saw.

Just a thought, but if a guy does not want folks knowing their company's initials that guy might not want to broadcast said initials on websites.

Just a thought.....................

 

[Sidecarflip]

Don't post pictures of my 'Tool' either. Everyone would laugh at how small it is. Spent 37 years convincing my wife it's just fine. I believe she knows better but never says anything and I'm good with that. Least it clears my zipper so I don't whizz on my pants when I have to go....lol

 

[Sidecarflip]

I custom cut a set of dogs for my CS Echo, but never installed them anyway. Sitting on the bench in the shop presently. Took about 5 minutes to cut on the CNC plasma table from a piece of scrap hot rolled steel. Nice to have the tools to do that stuff with. My philosophy is, a sharp loop will pull the chain into the cut, so long as the rakers are properly set. If anyone wants them, I can send them to you...

 

[ZeroJunk]

Don't post pictures of my 'Tool' either. Everyone would laugh at how small it is. Spent 37 years convincing my wife it's just fine. I believe she knows better but never says anything and I'm good with that. Least it clears my zipper so I don't whizz on my pants when I have to go....lol

Not sure whether I could do that in Michigan or not. Maybe in the summer.