When is it appropriate to NOT use a felling notch?

[Greystoke]

I have several large Eucalyptus that need to be brought down behind my house and gardens.

They are heavily weighted, as well as side-leaning, in the same direction; which unfortunately is over a cliff with my house below. I have found that using 3 winches pulling the tree ~170 degrees away from the lean, without cutting a notch to fell the tree, to work well.

I use a 1 ton at the furthest point to pull the branches around nearly 90 degrees.
A second 2 ton is in the mid section to pull the larger central trunk as far as possible and to assist the smaller winch.
The final 3 ton is placed near the beginning of the bend in the trunk, about 20 meters above the base. This is to stabilize while I drive wedges into the cut and to help bring the largest portion of the tree trunk over its center of gravity.

I have found that making the back cut slant slightly downwards in the direction the winches are pulling to be helpful also.

I have not found much good information available for situations like this and would appreciate feedback from those who have worked with Eucalyptus and winches, or could direct me to some outside links online.

= winches

<-- + tree and desired direction of fall

| lean and branch weight



My concern is that by making a notch, I may weaken the tree prematurely and have it fall without control. The lumber is not valuable to me.

:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop:

Man, this sounds scary! You need to post some pics. I have never cut a eucalyptus but I am guessing that could easily barber chair. Cutting a tree without using an undercut is never a good practice, an with a large tree can be very deadly. These are the best pics I could find showing a barber chair:

Be safe pardner!

 

[redprospector]

I've never cut Eucalyptus either, so I guess this is just my opinion................But, I would have to say that it is NEVER ok to fell a tree of any size without an undercut. If you're worried about "weakening the tree prematurely", make sure your cables are set high enough and under tension before you start cutting. I don't think that sloped back cut is doing you any good either.
Play it safe, it ain't worth dieing over.

Andy

 

[Meadow Beaver]

It's not safe at all. Cutting a tree without a face cut will give you little control over where the tree will land as well.

 

[056kid]

When is it appropriate to NOT use a felling notch?


When you are in the mood to get hurt BIG TIME!!

 

[Hddnis]

As I've been thinking about this more I can forsee a situation where you cut the tree and it turns and drops along the cliff instead of away from it. Your winches may be enough to make it fall the right direction, but not to hold it once on the ground, or worse yet if it was hanging at the top of the cliff.


Hope this helps you understand what I'm saying.

Even if the anchor points were spread out you would then run the greater risk of the tree overcoming one and compounding the problem.


Mr. HE

 

[matt9923]

When is it appropriate to NOT use a felling notch?


When you are in the mood to get hurt BIG TIME!!

yup unless I'm cutting a 3" tree.

 

[Hddnis]

yup unless I'm cutting a 3" tree.

I use the MS 192 on those and cut a notch anyway. Also a backcut. It is just fun, and requires a level of precision that you don't always have to use in bigger trees.


Besides, it can be fun.:hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE

 

[matt9923]

I use the MS 192 on those and cut a notch anyway. Also a backcut. It is just fun, and requires a level of precision that you don't always have to use in bigger trees.


Besides, it can be fun.:hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE

LOL, i sometimes cut in an inch then back cut to give me a little hinge action.

 

[Wishie22]

No notch = no control is what I was taught.

Hate to see the tree barber (as stated) and run down the hill on ya.

 

[2dogs]

Magnus I have quite alot of experience with eucs. They are strong and heavy! The bark on them makes climbing very difficult. A face cut is absolutely needed here as on any tree over 5" or so. To not notch the tree you are asking for trouble because it may split vertically, aka a barberchair. Trying to tear a tree down with equipment is also never a good idea. Any failure in the system leeds to loss of control of the direction of fall. Using a (BIG) winch to aid in keeping control of the tree can work out fine as long as you first face and then back cut the tree.

If you know a competent climber then chunking the tree down may be the best solution. That may cost you some money though. At least dinner and some refreshments!

Posting pics of the job may help but on;y so much information can be gleaned from a picture.

BTW you have a great blog.

 

[hammerlogging]

pop cut: kerf face, back cut, when she pops run like hell.


Stupid.

 

[bullbuck]

No notch = no control is what I was taught.

Hate to see the tree barber (as stated) and run down the hill on ya.

:agree2:

 

[056kid]

Just back cutting is no fun anyway!

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Just back cutting is no fun anyway!

Yep it doesn't take any skill to put your saw on the back of the tree and cut.

 

[bullbuck]

Just back cutting is no fun anyway!

but it can increase your pay getting paid by the piece in small timber by upwards of a third to "hack"off trees 16"and smaller that are obviously headed in a certain direction.first your saw must be cutting fast second once you commit you must not stop for anything,i even will check my fuel level before attempting this,it is not safe,i certainly do not condone it.but for a poor starving scab it has made the difference in a good paying day,and just another day in trash many times,mind you these are small trees on anything bigger my cuts match everytime if possible,calculated risk for me,but one cutting near things of value?no way! i would notch a 3"if it were near a home etc.

 

[TreeClimber57]

You need the notch and hinge to control the fall as other have stated. Dangerous otherwise. Never safe to fell a tree without notch and proper hinge wood, unless it is small enough you can pick the whole tree up and carry it.. then you can control the fall perhaps by simply your own strength. Be safe..

 

[fmaglin]

I've had to pull a few trees and the way I do it is I rig up my pulling line usually as high as I can place it. I have the winch operator put just enough tension on my line to keep the tree from falling in a direction I don't want it to go; I then notch for the direction I want it to fall. As I begin my back cut I watch the kerf. When it just starts to open up I stop sawing and signal the winch operator to start winchin. I've been pretty successful using this procedure.

 

[gallegosmike]

Anything over 8", I use a shallow notch in the face of the tree. Over 12", do a felling notch. Over 24" and Ive only done a few. I use a V notch to make the tree goes where I need it to!

 

[dingeryote]

Anything over 8", I use a shallow notch in the face of the tree. Over 12", do a felling notch. Over 24" and Ive only done a few. I use a V notch to make the tree goes where I need it to!

Birdsbeak notch deep. Cable. Tractor. Back cut just to make a hinge, and fold it over

If no room for a tractor, I would be leery of using a winch.
Once the thing starts over and the cable goes slack, there would be a hell of a shock if the thing started sliding downhill.

Possibly tie it off low, to some sort of anchor, to control any wierdness when it's down and while the winch takes up slack??

No face cut means no control at all. I have watched my cousin cut with no face, and the weight rotating the trunk can go any way it wants, whenever it wants. Creepy scary stuff even on little 24" Red Oaks. I dunno how the production guys keep alive doing that sorta thing.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[CanadianCarGuy]

What I would do is tie line high up as possible on the tree, and ladder will do the trick most of the time (I've done this a few times with 100foot fir trees). Then attach the line to something that is well anchored. Then using a come along winch the tree back away from the cliff until you see it has changed the lean enough or put enough pressure on it that you can visually notice it. Cut an undercut (just go deep enough so that the hinge will support the weight of the tree, too small and the weight of the tree will collapse on the weakest side under tension), then you can do the backcut two different ways. One is really slow and steady cutting a bit and winching a bit. The wincher must stay with the cutter, otherwise there may be too much weight for the come along or make it more difficult than it should be. Remember not to walk in front of the intended falling direction of the tree if you are winching yourself once it is cut. The other way to cut the backcut would be to put as much tension on the tree as possible and then cut the backcut fast as possible to use the momentum of the bowed over tree as a spring, but this way is pretty hit or miss, but the anchored line will keep the tree from falling backwards. Also remember to put the come along far enough away that the wincher won't get creamed with the tree.