Where did all the loggers go?

[northmanlogging]

I will add, the main reason a lot of the old "real loggers" left was after the site got hacked, remember that? a lot of things about how the website itself worked changed, as well as taking a very long time to come back online, many just didn't come back or could no longer log in, otherwise I'd imagine they'd still be here pissing in everyone's cornflakes. To say nothing about some internal squabbles over opinions, and some folks, who I believe have recently been excommunicated who wouldn't stop harassing members, but that would just be my observation from the outside looking in.
A good few of the folks, simply retired from the industry as a whole.
Me, I've got nothing better to do with my spare time (I do, but I'm also lazy it rains a lot, and I need a shop... )

 

[056kid]

Whutz "haywire"?


See, this is the kind of question a newbie would post. The only place to get an answer, however, would be in this forum. And... I am really curious.
I would guess baling wire to bind up hay with, but that's probably wrong.

So is that an actual earnest question?

 

[pdqdl]

So is that an actual earnest question?

Yes, it was. I was attempting to sound like a hayseed newbie. Sorry it didn't work, but that was my ill-formed way of presenting the question as what a newbie might ask.

hay wire/straw line, samsies sort of, most abundant wire source on a landing is the Straw line, the 100' lengths of usually 3/8 cable used to "suck" they larger rigging out to the far end of a unit.
Haywire, being slang for an outfit held together with straw line fixes, usually bits of broken straw line turned into molly Hogan's, or simply tied together, its not a compliment... and usually means the outfit is janky and dangerous.

I'd have never picked that up without an excellent explanation. thanks.

 

[pdqdl]

amsteel is hardly as strong as steel cable, its rated working load is considerably lower then cable, and it stretches far more then cable. These are easily demonstrated if you avoid the marketing wank and look at the specs alone.
Not to mention logging isn't dealing with manicured lawns and rope bags with conveinient anti friction surfaces strategically spaced on any possible wear surface, its hard and fast, I would, and have, shredded the synthetic garbage in a day, its easily cut, not abrasion resistant in the slightest, first time a choker slider got hung up or pinched the garbage gets cut or burned, let alone crossing stumps, rocks, sticks and stones, and its more expensive then wire rope. which it being easily spliced is like the only plus side, except I use quick knobs, and can splice an eye in 30 minutes with wire rope. less if I use a Farmers eye (which ironically is stronger then traditional tucked eyes, or even ferule swaged eyes, maintaining full strength of the rope, and usually breaking at they eye rather then the leading end of the splice)


it is lighter though, which i guess is cool if you really need to save your knees or have really cheap tires on your 14000# skidder...

Although I use amsteel on my little slow 12k winch, it never sees the same kind of usage that the loggers put on. I agree, it melts under shock loading, and it shears much easier than wire rope of the same size. I get it. And DAMN! It is entirely too expensive if it doesn't last on the job.

I should have been more specific with my question. Amsteel (of the same diameter) is a whole lot tougher and stronger than the 9/16 stable braid rope.

Myself, I figure that it's fragile nature compared to a real wire rope is more than compensated by it's ease of use. I can coil my little 3/8ths rope up and toss it 50 feet down a hill with just the weight of the hook. When I break it, I can fix it on the job in just a few minutes, and I don't waste the whole length. I'll get 2-4 years out of one little 100' length, and it never rusts nor kinks. It really sucks to get off the winch drum when you break it, however.

 

[dmb2613]

very few loggers left here, fuel cost and bad help. not many cutters lots of tree shears. We dont sell near as many 661s as we use to. trees not big enough maybe. 90% buy the ms 362s a big saw will last a long time if you dont use it much.

 

[northmanlogging]

Although I use amsteel on my little slow 12k winch, it never sees the same kind of usage that the loggers put on. I agree, it melts under shock loading, and it shears much easier than wire rope of the same size. I get it. And DAMN! It is entirely too expensive if it doesn't last on the job.

I should have been more specific with my question. Amsteel (of the same diameter) is a whole lot tougher and stronger than the 9/16 stable braid rope.

Myself, I figure that it's fragile nature compared to a real wire rope is more than compensated by it's ease of use. I can coil my little 3/8ths rope up and toss it 50 feet down a hill with just the weight of the hook. When I break it, I can fix it on the job in just a few minutes, and I don't waste the whole length. I'll get 2-4 years out of one little 100' length, and it never rusts nor kinks. It really sucks to get off the winch drum when you break it, however.

... I'm not bragging... much, but I can throw 100' of 3/8's wire rope pretty damned far, farther then I can fiber rope, cause it holds together better. the log wrappers on the log truck are 28' totall, 16' of 3/8 wire rope with 4' and 8' of 5/16 grade 70 chain, regularly toss them over the 14' tall log truck with ease... could never pull that off with a fiber rope. (someday, if a learn to give a S I might even be able to throw them over and have the leading end shoot under the load so I don't have to walk around and throw em through... but I'd have to give a S first)
9/16"s amsteel... geeslus I'd have to mortgage the house fer that stuff... $800 ish for 100' ouch
though it does advertise a 3k higher breaking strength vs 9/16 Wire rope, working load limits are always much lower then wire rope, 3/4 wire rope breaking is 47600 with fiber core, wire core is 10% higher, and a much higher WLL limit
anyway, I've got 8? years on the current winch line, with little or no maintainance (sometimes I throw a mudflap over it) and its been broke a dozen or so times, but I still have a good 70' of the original 100' and I'll probably get another 2-3 years out of it.

 

[sawfarmer]

Is a horse logger a logger is a large firewood operation a logger I think if you have cut ,harvest skid timber full time your a logger.But what do i know i still use horses to skid timber.

 

[Billhook]

Since we are discussing punctuation, whatcha gonna do when it's plural possessive?

For that matter why isn't the possessive "its" got an apostrophe, too?

Found my Great Great Grandfather's exam paper in the loft from 1865 . He was at a school in Norfolk England and aged 13. It was set by Cambridge University and it was the English Grammar paper
Third question on the page was " When is a pronoun in the nominative case absolute?"

 

[Billhook]

They always said that England and America are two countries divided by a common language, but when I read this Wiki I think England is also a country divided by two languages, the formal and the everyday!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_absolute

 

[pdqdl]

working load limits are always much lower then wire rope

Ooh! I had never noticed that. Good call.

 

[GeeVee]

The only logging even remotely around here happens with a feller bunchier on tree farms, realistically its all residential tree removers and land clearing. I might fell 2-3 a year helping friends but for the most I cut for firewood to support the saws that I enjoy using and building. People don't even bother to harvest firewood from the state and federal lands here.

Crawfordville Florida, or Crawfordville Georgia? I know both places a little bit- but i also didn't know you could harvest, as in scrounge up, some wood in a State or Federal lands in either? Seems to be a southern thing, no access, no permission, no way. Yet when I am in the rest of the county (out of the south), I see lots of opportunity to scrounge in Larger Park systems, and of course, the places where its a Forestry area and you can get permits for certain amounts at the right times..... Heck- our landfills here grind EVERYTHING, and there aint no harvesting allowed.....

Roger that! I believe I'm done with this thread.

Good day Gentleman and...

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

Its only a little old- but yes, cantankerous Loggers are missed around here, like a case of Herpes.

 

[slowp]

Here is a hooktender packing a roll of haywire/strawline. Unfortunately, it was for a downhill yarding setting with no road at the top so it has to be carried up. The line is laid out from the landing to the tailhold or tail tree, run around a block and back to the yarder. The mainline or skyline is hooked up to the haywire and is then pulled up and depending on what kind of system used, rigged up to the tail tree or stump block. Then yarding can commence.

Disclaimer: I are no logger, just worked amongst them. I did set chokers for a whole morning when I felt sorry for the guy who was doing it all by himself. After doing that, a funny thing happened. Two fallers who were working for someone else were driving by, stopped, jumped out offering me paper towels because I was kinda greasy. Amusing things can happen in the woods.

Talk is blunt. One doesn't say, please walk quickly out of the area because that tree is about to come down on the lines and things may get whippy, so excuse yourself and find a big stump to hide behind. Instead ^%$% RUN and maybe that &^%$er is dropping that tree onto the lines. Note I use the term dropping. It was not a skilled faller falling that tree.

This is a roll of haywire leaving the landing. There are now drones that can carry it but I do not know how common that is.

 

[slowp]

Stringing out the haywire. This also shows the corridor cut out for the skyline to hang through. Coils or rolls are unstrung and hooked together to get the length needed. It's a lovely job where the guys skip and hop through the fell and buck (logs) and maybe pick wild flowers.

 

[Campbellcontractlogging]

I mean the real loggers. There used to be quite a few here. Have they given up on this place and turned it over to the part timers and wannabes?

I’m usually working

 

[Campbellcontractlogging]

What is the cutoff for time away from the woods before the title goes away? Or is it like the Marine Corps? I haven't been since late 2017. Family needed help.

Am I a real logger?

I've got the time now, & have been offered a deal on everything an old employer has. The price of fuel now pretty much puts that idea to rest for the time being.

The only thing keeping me in the woods is that the mills pay good for tie logs and really good for stave logs fuel is insane oil is insane can’t get chokers from our local place parts are insane it’s barely worth doing anymore.

 

[pdqdl]

Would it be practical to make your own chokers ?

I can make mine for about 1/4th the cost of the chokers I usecould buy. But they are synthetic rope, and I don't need any special equipment.

 

[northmanlogging]

Would it be practical to make your own chokers ?

I can make mine for about 1/4th the cost of the chokers I usecould buy. But they are synthetic rope, and I don't need any special equipment.

sorta?
the right size quick knob will work with the right size choker bell, then all you need is short sections of old but good cable, its a little time consuming, But they work just as well as any regular cable choker. I had a couple of them, but when they break, and they will break, you end up losing the quick knob, which costs about as much as a complete swaged ferule choker
Chain chokers (like why bother dude) are available anywhere if you are looking hard enough.
the rope chokers are fine and dandy for occasional use, but, chokers in a logging environment get the S kicked ouf of them all day every day, they are essentially the leading edge to most of the abuse dished out, and logging is hard on everything in general.
you could easily splice an eye and use that sort of choker, but thats a whole lot of extra work getting the damned thing under and around a log compared to normal ferule type chokers... let alone spicing the eye to begin with, (eye to eye chokers are a total waste of effort all the way around the list of problems is endless, hell even singe eye chokers are problematic)

 

[056kid]

Unable to sleep, I was ruminating & sending messages regarding the ebay toils I've had lately when I thought about something.

How many people in Virginia have cut & logged a yarder unit?
We did up on Pott's Mtn on a Gypsy moth kill. Mostly clearcut red & whiteoak Near Salem VA. Boss man J.K Wilson as first time yarder engineer in his 60s. He dropped the carrige a few times, but never broke a thing that whole time.
Juan & I cut all the timber, did all the the rigging, [pulled the skyline by hand for a half of a morning out to the farthest corner since nobody in charge knew anything about yarders (the owner of the machine) & the necessity of haywire, which was fun], & hooked all the timber on every last road. All under a madill 071 with an Eagle eaglet that pulled slack most of the time, but not all the time. There's VHS footage of that somewhere at Mr. Wilson's house


Oh **** yes I'm a logger.

 

[slowp]

Unable to sleep, I was ruminating & sending messages regarding the ebay toils I've had lately when I thought about something.

How many people in Virginia have cut & logged a yarder unit?
We did up on Pott's Mtn on a Gypsy moth kill. Mostly clearcut red & whiteoak Near Salem VA. Boss man J.K Wilson as first time yarder engineer in his 60s. He dropped the carrige a few times, but never broke a thing that whole time.
Juan & I cut all the timber, did all the the rigging, [pulled the skyline by hand for a half of a morning out to the farthest corner since nobody in charge knew anything about yarders (the owner of the machine) & the necessity of haywire, which was fun], & hooked all the timber on every last road. All under a madill 071 with an Eagle eaglet that pulled slack most of the time, but not all the time. There's VHS footage of that somewhere at Mr. Wilson's house


Oh **** yes I'm a logger.

I worked in AZ for a couple of years. I was told that they tried yarder logging but it destroyed too much ground as you had to cut out at least 100 feet for the lines to run through. I mentioned that it must've been a great timber grab and told them about how it really works--8 to 12 foot corridors in partial cuts. I suspect they were using some kind of an ancient machine.

Have had an environmentalist also tell me that yarder logging can only occur in clearcuts. Although I'd worked in yarder units for years, he was not going to listen.
Got offered a hooktender job (joking) after I said the fatal words "I think your jack is rigged backwards." Was told it wasn't, but then after yarding commenced, heard the whistle blow for stopping, and then a holler "You were right. Want a hooktender job?"

I loved working on sales with skyline yarding. It takes some thinking and tweaking to do it well. The ground is usually steep. The whistles are cheery. What more could you ask?

 

[northmanlogging]

I worked in AZ for a couple of years. I was told that they tried yarder logging but it destroyed too much ground as you had to cut out at least 100 feet for the lines to run through. I mentioned that it must've been a great timber grab and told them about how it really works--8 to 12 foot corridors in partial cuts. I suspect they were using some kind of an ancient machine.

Have had an environmentalist also tell me that yarder logging can only occur in clearcuts. Although I'd worked in yarder units for years, he was not going to listen.
Got offered a hooktender job (joking) after I said the fatal words "I think your jack is rigged backwards." Was told it wasn't, but then after yarding commenced, heard the whistle blow for stopping, and then a holler "You were right. Want a hooktender job?"

I loved working on sales with skyline yarding. It takes some thinking and tweaking to do it well. The ground is usually steep. The whistles are cheery. What more could you ask?

gotta love ignorance at its best...
100' corridors, thats an acre every 4000' of corridor, ish..
and the bunny huggers telling folks how to do it best is always a hoot. Got into an argument with some jack knob that insisted that we still spray herbicides year round, and that if we all just switched to hardwood logging and planted Aspens, and populars we could reduce the ground used in logging... bruv, both of those are invasive species here...