Where does all the paper come from ??

[slowp]

What I noticed here in Central Oregon was that the truckloads of short fat logs (doubles) go south on Hwy. 97 and the truckloads of long skinny pecker poles (singles) head north on Hwy. 97.

I was guessing that the skinny ones were going to pulp, but I'm wrong, ain't I?

.

I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.

 

[hammerlogging]

I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.

Markets the way they are I think that we might have some low grade sawlogs slipping into our pulpwood sorts. The good wood, no way.

 

[cuznguido]

This amazed me, that the US is second only to Japan in chip imports.




And we have massive piles of tops and debris rotting on log decks

I think that stat would be more informative if it were presented in terms of quantity i.e. Tons. There may or may not be a disparity in price and seeing the quantities rather than value would give a truer picture.

 

[LarryTheCableGuy]

I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.

I have heard biomass mentioned a couple of times around here. One was in relation to a thinning project that "they" have been working on. Ten miles wide on each side of the Deschutes river (yup, an area twenty miles wide by I dunno how long, too long I'm sure!). "They" should be in my area this spring/summer.

Our lots are 1/2 acre (90'x300') and my back half is just thick with Lodgepole saplings and a few larger Ponderosas. I just sign a waiver and I get my backyard weeded for free.

It all gets hauled out for biomass. Where to, I have no idea.

.

 

[southernoutdoor]

In my neck of the woods i got 4 paper mills within 75 miles. One is in the next town over, we take everything to them stems, tops, thinning logs you name it, But so do alot of sawmills for particle board.. the days of big logs are looking poor bout two years ago we contracted to weyerhauser, we were 2 1/2 years ahead of projections and running out of places to cut

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Mead Paper and others own hundreds of thousands of acres ( maybe millions)in Michigan U.P.

Not anymore. Mead sold out years back to people like plum creek, GMO, Molpus ext.

 

[056kid]

I used to cut wood that would go to Westvaco in Covington VA..

anything that wasent big enough for a log was off to stinky town...

 

[PB]

Thats not being a prick, thats common sense. Plants neeed both- photosynthesis provides non-mineral nutrients and the soil (or substitute) provides mineral nutrients, all these nutrients TOGETHER allow for cell growth and function. Can't give a plant just sun and expect it to grow, it needs more than just light.

The nutrient cycle is that growth, breakdown, decay, uptake process. Ya'll, this is 4th grade science class, PlantBiologist, you've got to know this. Glad I can still manage to be pro faller despite my education..... Stem harvesting is mostly carbon, which is abundantly available. on the other hand, harvesting tops, slash, god forbid forest floor duff for biofuel, thats where all the valuable stuff is. I bet we can get away with removing a little from the system, but too much and we will see effects beyond decreased productivity, i.e. reduced vitality reducing pest and disease resistance, overall vitality.

Did you catch this post? Just so you know, I really am a plant biologist. There are very few things in this world that I will claim to understand, but plants are one of them. Plants don't take up carbon from the soil, they take up macro and micro nutrients and don't certainly "eat" anything. They only take what is available, don't break anything down.

You are talking about nurse logs, I know exactly what they are. The trees aren't "eating" anything, they don't break down the dead log or take nutrients from it. Plant a seed on a freshly fallen log and see if it grows. They simply take up nutrients that have been released by the fungi/bacteria that eat the tree. Fungi and bacteria actually eat the tree, not trees themselves. After the fungi is done decaying, all that is left is soil full of nutrients.

 

[Humptulips]

I heard they were shipping logs to a biomass place. I even heard Longview mentioned. But if that were true, how come nobody is sending the slash piles to there from around here. We are a heck of a lot closer.

They are shipping slash piles to Grays Harbor Papers biomass electric generating facility. I have a friend that hauls for the shingle mills their spaltz also. He said the hauling costs eat up the total value of the wood mass at about 40 miles out. Mills farther out have to pay to get rid of it. With the cost of collecting the slash you can't get much over about 20 miles out or it becomes uneconomical.

Hard to get the slash hauling trucks up to weight too and the mill wants slash rather then hog fuel from the woods. Something to do with water content in storage piles.

 

[Humptulips]

Have to say I agree with PlantBiologist. Seen a lot of Doug fir growing on rocky points with little to no soil but good drainage. Back when I planted trees many years ago they wanted them in good mineral soil and even without much if any top soil they seemed to grow well.

 

[joesawer]

Chip mill here in Alabama is crying for pulp wood. Both pine and hard wood.
So many loggers are out of business that there is not enough left to feed them.
I can still hear the laughter over getting the loggers to cut their rates and work cheaper and cheaper. That does not seem to be working to well for the companies now. But the ones who ran it into the ground sold out and left.
I have a market for low grade tie logs, very high grade tight grain pine, high grade white oak and pulp wood.
The bad thing is that trees that where going to GP for peeler logs a few years ago are now going for pulp wood. And my dad has a saw mill!

 

[056kid]

They are shipping slash piles to Grays Harbor Papers biomass electric generating facility. I have a friend that hauls for the shingle mills their spaltz also. He said the hauling costs eat up the total value of the wood mass at about 40 miles out. Mills farther out have to pay to get rid of it. With the cost of collecting the slash you can't get much over about 20 miles out or it becomes uneconomical.

Hard to get the slash hauling trucks up to weight too and the mill wants slash rather then hog fuel from the woods. Something to do with water content in storage piles.

Its allmost the same picture over on the east coast. by the time you haul the wood, you have made about 15 dollars.

now if you can get with in about 25 muinits of the mill, you can make alittle money.

 

[hammerlogging]

but if a dude wants to call it "eats" fine, the concept is analagous.

Semantics, jargon, don't deem intelligence. Carbon comes from the atmosphere. other #### comes from the earth. My interpretation of PB's was that plant's needs were exclusively taken from photosynthesis.

Plant growth is limited by that which is in the most limited supply from the proportioned ratio of what is demanded. chill.

 

[tramp bushler]

OK ,, No fightin everybody !!!!
.. Doug Fir has a tap root from what everyone tells me , and yes trees in good draining soil grow big and fast ....like crik bottom Spruce ......
.
. I myownself think the difference between (eating ) and Up Take. is symantical and not real ...... Think or it this way , if a cow stopped breathing all the food they ate wouldn,t do them any good . it takes a combination , but it still is eating .....:agree2:

 

[Burvol]

Have to say I agree with PlantBiologist. Seen a lot of Doug fir growing on rocky points with little to no soil but good drainage. Back when I planted trees many years ago they wanted them in good mineral soil and even without much if any top soil they seemed to grow well.

You bet, drainage and competition for sunlight makes good Dougies.

 

[PB]

but if a dude wants to call it "eats" fine, the concept is analagous.

Semantics, jargon, don't deem intelligence. Carbon comes from the atmosphere. other #### comes from the earth. My interpretation of PB's was that plant's needs were exclusively taken from photosynthesis.

Plant growth is limited by that which is in the most limited supply from the proportioned ratio of what is demanded. chill.

What do plants use for energy?

 

[clinchscavalry]

OK ,, No fightin everybody !!!!
.. Doug Fir has a tap root from what everyone tells me , and yes trees in good draining soil grow big and fast ....like crik bottom Spruce ......
.
. I myownself think the difference between (eating ) and Up Take. is symantical and not real ...... Think or it this way , if a cow stopped breathing all the food they ate wouldn,t do them any good . it takes a combination , but it still is eating .....:agree2:

Whew, this is crazy. Have any of you ever heard of Site Index ? Any gardener knows that better tomatoes grow on better soil. Same with trees. Good soil, good moisture, good drainage, and enough sunlight = happy trees and better growth. The idea that any higher plant can grow without nutrients is preposterous

 

[hammerlogging]

What do plants use for energy?

plants convert CO2 into starches and sugars with sunlight. Changing light energy into chemical energy.

blah blah blah.

more relevant to this discussion is the fact that this is not the only part of the tree's intake to allow for growth. They need to "eat" more than just sunlight.

 

[PB]

Whew, this is crazy. Have any of you ever heard of Site Index ? Any gardener knows that better tomatoes grow on better soil. Same with trees. Good soil, good moisture, good drainage, and enough sunlight = happy trees and better growth. The idea that any higher plant can grow without nutrients is preposterous

That wasn't even part of the conversation, no one ever said plants can grow without nutrients.

Any gardener can also tell you that some varieties and plants require more nutrients than others. Remember most plants in the garden are not exotic, and have been bred to give high yield or a better tasting fruit/crop. To get the big tomato, the plant needs higher amounts of nurtrients, but the wild Solanum species can live in the poorest soils on the planet with little nutrients. Some species grow on the bare rock ledges in the Andes. To get the big fruit, there is a trade off: it requires more nutrient input. Current plant breeding programs are trying to re-introduce exotic germplasm to reduce the need for additional nutrient and water input.

Everything added to the soil (N, P, K, and micro nutrients) are mostly to improve the rate of photosynthesis. So by adding these, you are boosting the capability of sugar production (real plant food). You can add fertilizer until you are broke, but it won't necessarily increase your yield.

 

[bullbuck]

wich came first?the dirt or the trees?im saying the trees,but im no botanist,i believe that a certain amount of decomposing slash left in the woods is a good thing,it richens the soil,and from my experince the biggest juiciest trees grow in the deep soil