Who Took My Freedom???

[mantis]

In the name of environmental conservation our freedoms are being raped from us.When will it end?Who will fire the first shot? Here is what is happening in NYS.Hope you can read it.

 

[Grace Tree]

If you can locate a copy of regulation it might be more informative than the newspaper article. In one sentence they state that there's a ban on all non treated firewood; whatever that means. In another it says that they're banning importing firewood from other states. That seems like it may be a sound practice considering what the ash borer has done in Michigan and here in Ohio. Hardly a rape of your individual rights. It would be interesting to know more.
Phil

 

[mantis]

The point is I cant ship wood over 50 miles in this state.And under 50 you have to get a certificate to do so.(For personal use only)Cant you see what they are doing? This is how it starts:censored:

 

[Ed*L]

You don't get it do you? It's being done for a reason and a damn good one.

If you haven't seen the impact of EAB, maybe you should come to Michigan for a little while. How would YOU like it if 30 to 40% of the trees in YOUR woods were dying and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ed

 

[Grace Tree]

Well I skimmed it the first time I read it and I missed the 50 mile limitations. I can see that you're pretty upset over it and maybe for good reason but I still would like to see the whole regulation in print. Don't they have to receive public comment before the institute new regs in NY?
Phil

 

[mantis]

Well I skimmed it the first time I read it and I missed the 50 mile limitations. I can see that you're pretty upset over it and maybe for good reason but I still would like to see the whole regulation in print. Don't they have to receive public comment before the institute new regs in NY?
Phil

Are you kidding?This is NY.They do what they want in Albany.

 

[mantis]

You don't get it do you? It's being done for a reason and a damn good one.

If you haven't seen the impact of EAB, maybe you should come to Michigan for a little while. How would YOU like it if 30 to 40% of the trees in YOUR woods were dying and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ed

Yes I do get it.So you are saying it is better for the insects to stay it the wood so they can jump from tree to tree instead of me cutting it down and burning it.Thats going to work.If they can travel from Asia and Europe.What is 50 miles to them.You have to kill them where they live.
And yes I have seen the impact.dutch Elm has ruined this area.They should have taken care of it when it started

 

[PB]

You don't get it do you? It's being done for a reason and a damn good one.

If you haven't seen the impact of EAB, maybe you should come to Michigan for a little while. How would YOU like it if 30 to 40% of the trees in YOUR woods were dying and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ed

What he said. If you spread tree insects around because it is your freedom, you might destroy an entire tree population. How is that going to help your freedom?

I don't think you understand the severity of damage that insects can do to trees. Michigan is a very good example, go visit and tell us if you have the same attitude.

 

[mantis]

I guess you are all blind to close to the tree that you cant see the forest.I understand that there is a problem with insects.but there is also a movement to stop us from burning wood.How the hell by stoping me from cutting wood.and bringing it over 50 miles and then burning it going to stop the spread of these insects?

 

[mantis]

What he said. If you spread tree insects around because it is your freedom, you might destroy an entire tree population. How is that going to help your freedom?

I don't think you understand the severity of damage that insects can do to trees. Michigan is a very good example, go visit and tell us if you have the same attitude.

we have a infestation with maple,ash.elm and others.so I do see it.get rid of those that are infected so the others will servive

 

[Ed*L]

Yes I do get it.So you are saying it is better for the insects to stay it the wood so they can jump from tree to tree instead of me cutting it down and burning it.Thats going to work.If they can travel from Asia and Europe.What is 50 miles to them.You have to kill them where they live.
And yes I have seen the impact.dutch Elm has ruined this area.They should have taken care of it when it started

All it takes is one infected block of wood to be moved and left at a campsite somewhere outside of the infected area. Nobody sees it, nobody knows anything until it's to late.
In my experience, EAB do not hang around the ground, once airborne, they stay in the crown of the tree, prefering to lay thier eggs in crotch areas. The initial insect hatch will be in the upper part of a tree, you will never know anything has happened. By the time you find exit holes at ground level, you are in trouble, the borers will have been it the area for a couple of years. They only travel a short distane each year, a 50 mile move would give them a jump of many years.
The movement of infected wood and nursery stock is why the insects have spread so rapidly.

As for Dutch Elm disease, it's nothing like EAB. We still have Elms here, I harvested 3 last year that got me over 500lb/ft of lumber. There are still young Elm growing and there will be for a long time. I think EAB will be more like a wildfire, within 5-10 years they will be all gone once an area is infected.

Ed

 

[mantis]

so you would suggest just do nothing.Dutch Elm is caused by a bettle.and is rappid around here.we have a ton of elm that were healthy a few years ago but now are dead.

 

[moss]

so you would suggest just do nothing.Dutch Elm is caused by a bettle.and is rappid around here.we have a ton of elm that were healthy a few years ago but now are dead.

No one's saying do nothing, they're saying don't move firewood around. EAB has been spreading much more quickly because of firewood shipped out of infested zones. It's typical that law can't be fine tuned for local conditions, it's a big hammer. What's the problem with getting a permit so you can move it further than 50 miles? In a business scenario you pass the permit cost to the customer. I'm sure there was plenty of argument about where to set the limit - 50, 100, 200 miles? This isn't being pushed by environmentalists, the concern is coming from state and federal forestry agencies which are not known for putting the interests of the environment ahead of commercial forestry. Major league baseball is looking at total wipeout of mature ash stands in the northeast and loss of source material for bats if EAB isn't contained (probably won't be), last I heard MLB isn't a major environmental lobbying group.
-moss

 

[J.Walker]

This is the first I've heard about this! Albany is doing little about spreading this news. So now the DEC pulls you over and hit's you with a fine and a surcharge too. More money for them and less for you. I'll comply, maybe things will change before winter.

 

[PB]

This is the first I've heard about this! Albany is doing little about spreading this news. So now the DEC pulls you over and hit's you with a fine and a surcharge too. More money for them and less for you. I'll comply, maybe things will change before winter.

There are billboards on I-86 warning of fines. I am not sure where you are near, but these types of boards are all over the PA/NY border from both states.

 

[cjk]

I believe Wisconsin has a similar law. My brother was coming over to get some wood for camping, we had to get out a map to see if he was legal.

 

[Grace Tree]

I believe it's just a fact of life from now on. I have trees and chips on the ground in two adjacent counties but I'm not able to move them to my yard because those counties are EAB quarantined and mine isn't. The homeowners are cooperative once they're informed. No one's complaining about their losing their freedoms. Sorry the whole thing has you so torqued off but in today's world pests and diseases of plants, animals and humans can go global pretty quickly.
Regards,
Phil

 

[Zodiac45]

I believe it's just a fact of life from now on. I have trees and chips on the ground in two adjacent counties but I'm not able to move them to my yard because those counties are EAB quarantined and mine isn't. The homeowners are cooperative once they're informed. No one's complaining about their losing their freedoms. Sorry the whole thing has you so torqued off but in today's world pests and diseases of plants, animals and humans can go global pretty quickly.
Regards,
Phil

+1 Absolutely right Phil,

Maybe Plant Bio or someone can say why this happens? It may be human impact or just certain weather conditions, that allow a bug infestation too get out of control, but that's what happens and they are only trying to slow it down by limiting the movement of wood in infected areas.

Here's in Maine we have/had Tameracks (hatmatack) Eastern Larch that was once the king of ship building lumber. The stuff lasted forever underwater and even exposed was pretty good. The Larch Beetle put an end too the commercial viability of that tree. Still too this day their greying skeletons can still be seen standing in boggy areas, as a testiment too the durability of the species. They are starting to make a comeback and I for one hope they do. It's an excellent tree with a long history of medicinal, and commercial uses.

 

[mantis]

This is the first I've heard about this! Albany is doing little about spreading this news. So now the DEC pulls you over and hit's you with a fine and a surcharge too. More money for them and less for you. I'll comply, maybe things will change before winter.

You are dead on with this statement.How are people going to heat their homes this winter if you cant get firewood.

 

[mantis]

No one's saying do nothing, they're saying don't move firewood around. EAB has been spreading much more quickly because of firewood shipped out of infested zones. It's typical that law can't be fine tuned for local conditions, it's a big hammer. What's the problem with getting a permit so you can move it further than 50 miles? In a business scenario you pass the permit cost to the customer. I'm sure there was plenty of argument about where to set the limit - 50, 100, 200 miles? This isn't being pushed by environmentalists, the concern is coming from state and federal forestry agencies which are not known for putting the interests of the environment ahead of commercial forestry. Major league baseball is looking at total wipeout of mature ash stands in the northeast and loss of source material for bats if EAB isn't contained (probably won't be), last I heard MLB isn't a major environmental lobbying group.
-moss

You cant move it more than 50 miles period! and you need a permit to move it less than 50 miles
http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/2359.html#pagecontent

Emergency Regulations
Firewood Restrictions to Protect Forests from Invasive Species
The purpose of this emergency rule is to reduce the risk of introduction and spread of invasive insects and diseases of trees by preventing untreated firewood from entering New York State and restricting the movement, sale and possession, within the State, of untreated firewood that originates in New York State.

This emergency regulation is in effect for 90 days beginning June 3, 2008.

For more information, please see the Frequently Asked Questions for Firewood Regulation page. A Self-Issued Certificate of Source (100 kb pdf) form is required for the transport of untreated firewood for personal use, less than 50-miles from its New York source.

If you have any questions regarding this emergency firewood regulation, please contact:

Bruce Williamson
NYS DEC, Bureau of Private Land Services
625 Broadway
Albany, NY 12233-4253

Telephone: (518) 402-9425
E-mail: [email protected]

6 NYCRR 192.5
Express Terms

A new section 192.5 is added to 6 NYCRR Part 192 to read as follows:

§192.5 Firewood Restrictions to Protect Forests from Invasive Species.

(a) Definitions. For the purposes of this section, these terms shall be defined as follows:

(1) "Department" shall mean the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation.

(2) "Dealer" shall mean any person or business, other than a firewood producer, that sells firewood.

(3) "Firewood" shall mean any kindling, logs, chunkwood, boards, timbers or other wood of any tree species cut and split, or not split, into a form and size appropriate for use as fuel.

(4) "Firewood producer" shall mean any person or business who processes kindling, logs, chunkwood, boards, timbers or other wood of any tree species into firewood for sale.

(5) "New York-Approved Treated Firewood / Pest-Free" shall mean a labeling standard for firewood that may be used by a firewood producer who complies with the provisions of subdivision (d) of this section.

(6) "New York-Sourced Firewood" shall mean a labeling standard for firewood used by a New York firewood producer who complies with the provisions of subdivision (e) of this section.

(7) "Person" shall mean an individual, organization, corporation or partnership, other than the department, public authority, county, town, village, city, municipal agency or public corporation.

(8) "Phytosanitary certificate" or "plant health certificate" shall mean an official document issued by a state or country from which firewood is being exported which certifies that the firewood meets the phytosanitary regulations of New York State.

(9) "Self-issued Certificate of Source" shall mean certification, on a form prescribed by the department, that is signed by a person who desires to move firewood, for personal use, from one location to another, within New York in compliance with the provisions of subdivision (f) of this section.

(10) "Source" shall mean the village, town or city, which the firewood producer declares as the source of the firewood. All trees or logs that are processed into firewood that is declared to be from the named source shall have been grown within 50 miles of the named source, prior to being obtained by the firewood producer.

(11) "Untreated Firewood" shall mean any firewood that has not been treated in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) of this section.

(12) "50 miles" shall mean a 50 mile linear distance determined by using the scale-bar on a New York State road map, atlas or gazetteer, from the point identified as the stated source of the firewood in question.

(b) Prohibition on Transport of Untreated Firewood into New York State.

No person shall transport, by any means, Untreated Firewood into New York State, for sale or use within the State from any location outside the State.

(c) Restrictions on Transport, Sale and/or Possession of Untreated Firewood within New York State.

(1) No person shall transport, sell or possess Untreated Firewood within the State unless its source is identified according to the criteria set forth in either subdivision (e) or (f) of this section.

(2) No person shall move Untreated Firewood produced, from trees that are grown in New York State, more than 50 miles from the source of the firewood.

(3) Dealers of New York-Sourced Firewood shall provide copies of the firewood source documentation, provided by the firewood producer, to all purchasers.

(4) Firewood producers shall maintain records of log or wood purchases or procurement to verify the sources of their firewood. Such records shall be made available for inspection by the department upon request.

(d) Standards for Treatment and Labeling.

(1) Firewood may be labeled "New York-Approved Treated Firewood / Pest-Free if accompanied by a Firewood producer's certification that it was heat treated to achieve a minimum wood core temperature of 71°C for a minimum of 75 minutes. Such treatment may employ kiln-drying or other treatments approved by the department that achieve this specification through use of steam, hot water, dry heat or other methods.

(2) A Firewood producer's certification shall indicate the producer's name, legal address and the village, town or city of the business on a label, bill of sale or lading, purchase receipt or invoice accompanying such firewood.

(3) Producers of "New York-Approved Treated Firewood / Pest-Free" firewood shall maintain, for at least one year from the date of treatment, records that document the treatment method and the volume of firewood treated, and shall also allow department officials to inspect such records and the facilities used to treat firewood upon request.

(4) Phytosanitary certificates from an out-of-state firewood producer's State Department of Agriculture or the United States Department of Agriculture Animal Plant Health Inspection Service (USDA APHIS) may be used to verify the treatment method and volumes of treated firewood that is produced out-of-state.

(e) "New York-Sourced Firewood" requirements.

(1) The "New York-Sourced Firewood" designation may be applied only to Untreated Firewood that has its source wholly within New York State, and is transported not more than 50 miles from the firewood producer's declared source of the firewood.

(2) Dealers of "New York-Sourced Firewood" shall provide to customers the name of the producer of the firewood, the producer's legal address and the source of the firewood, as provided by the firewood producer, on a label, bill of sale or lading, purchase receipt or invoice, attached to or accompanying such firewood they sell.

(f) Self-issued Certificate of Source.

(1) Persons who cut and transport Untreated Firewood for personal use must complete and possess a Self-Issued Certificate of Source from the department in accordance with this section.

(2) A Self-Issued Certificate of Source must specify the source of the firewood being cut and transported.

(3) Self-Issued Certificate of Source forms shall be available on the department's website, http://www.dec.state.ny.gov/, and at the department's regional offices.

(4) No person who cuts and/or transports firewood for personal use shall move such firewood more than 50 miles from its source unless it is treated in accordance with subdivision (d) of this section.

(5) Persons who cut firewood on their own property, for their own use on that same property, are exempt from the requirements of this subdivision.