Why spurless utility Sucks

[beowulf343]

You know, it felt so good to vent I'm going to continue.

The thing that annoys me about this site is that most people seem to forget there are different disciplines when it comes to tree work. There is trimming, removals, and line clearance (which is a whole different animal in itself.) Most people do either one or a combination of a couple but vey few do all three and are experts in it. So why does someone who does primarily trimming gives pointers to a guy who does primarily removals. I'll admit, I do mostly removals, so you don't see me giving alot of advice to the trimmers or line clearance guys (although I've done both, I don't have the experience of someone who does it every day for a living.) And I'm not talking about honest questions either. The other day I was asking about using ladders-I didn't tell people they were unsafe, i was just curious as to how other climbers use them safely. For example, I may ask clearance why he uses spikes but I won't tell him not to use them because he knows more about line clearance than I do.
To sum up, if I want pointers on removals, I want them from someone who does removal. (And I'm only talking about things that pertain to removals only. Questions about ropes, knots, saws, etc. are free game.)

 

[jonseredbred]

I know you cant always tie in above your work. I have done more removals than I can count and I am not a newbie. I watch many a climber come to work and tie in 2 foot above the first limb they are gonna take out only to scramble around to tie in again and I was making discussion on that particular accident. Sorry you bit on it and became offended but I am sure you have seen climbers do it to.

 

[coydog]

first of all, we don't know he wasn't wearing spikes, if he was far enough out on a limb that his line was horizontal and his head clipped the line when he took the swing then he might have been standing out on the limb to clear some overhang before he took the limb all the way off at the trunk, in which case spikes or not would have made no difference. Notice the first thing that happened was his hard had fell off his head little good a class e hat will do if it flies off your head, would a chinstrap have saved him? who knows...

 

[RedlineIt]

Article doesn't say he was spurless or not, we don't know how he accessed the hemlock.

Article does say his rope was horizontal, not verticle which means he was on a limbwalk, so spurless or not is moot.

Only thing to learn from article is tie in high for a limbwalk, full-stop. Line clearance, prune, setting a rigging line, removal or whatever limbwalk = high tie-in.

Oh, that and the fact that an unsecured construction workers hardhat that flies off your head is probably not a good bet for tree work.


RedlineIt

 

[jonseredbred]

redline put everything in perspective, he is 100% correct.

 

[anuvadave]

When you climb with spurs you only have to climb as high as you need to do your work,

this is a qoute directly from the accident report which you should probably read again.

"He climbed the tree and secured himself around the main stem at approximately the same height he would be working."

if he had no highline wouldnt he have just fallen out of the tree with the branch??

 

[rbtree]

Good job on bringing this old thread back, that made clearance look stupid.

The article further states that, because he didn't set his lifeline well above, it was horizontal. Had he properly set it, he would have been able to limit his weight on the branch as he climbed out on it. Without seeing the situation, I'm going to assume that he should have also tip tied the branch and lifted it away from the primaries. This could have been done with an insulated pole. Hey, here I am, not a certified line clearance worker, describing how the job should (or could) have been done.

 

[ropensaddle]

When you climb with spurs you only have to climb as high as you need to do your work, then you can tie your rope to a good point and come down. There is no need to ever have your rope higher than you are to hold you while you are working, you climb up, cut off branches to get clearance, tie in and come down, simple, safe. What cannot you spurless do gooders understand, even you Mike, even because you are dumber now ?

I want to be above the wires as to not be put in direct path to ground.
I however understand the spur thing but your approach is rusty the
fatigue factor would be greater and time and production would suffer
to a point that electric bills would get way too high. Spurs in a positioning
sence, offer far superior ease in piecing near overhead conductors.

 

[clearance]

Stupid??

Good job on bringing this old thread back, that made clearance look stupid.

The article further states that, because he didn't set his lifeline well above, it was horizontal. Had he properly set it, he would have been able to limit his weight on the branch as he climbed out on it. Without seeing the situation, I'm going to assume that he should have also tip tied the branch and lifted it away from the primaries. This could have been done with an insulated pole. Hey, here I am, not a certified line clearance worker, describing how the job should (or could) have been done.

Really now, listen up, I climb with spurs, and how do you climb with spurs? With a steelcore. of course, no need to be standing on branches like this poor fellow was. I am stuck into the main stem, I tie in to what I can see to come down, thats it. Now, answer this, all you ISA geniuses, how could this have happened if he had been climbing with spurs and steelcore?????

 

[lxt]

Clearance not that I agree or disagree,

#1 where I come from steel core is a no no, your working around powerlines "steel" is a conductor!!!

#2 tie in at the highest safest point possible, c`mon we in the Line field have had to take overhang off, Ive been out over the phases scared but did it safely or as safe as possible.

#3 in line clearance spikes are more for production than safety IMO, Ive taken them off when doing overhangs or prune out`s of the secondary banks,

the climber in my opinion is the boss when aloft (apprentices not included) this gentleman just made an unfortunate/deadly mistake, clearance if what you are doing works for you & you make it home every night alive....God Bless you, keep doing it....but have an open mind!!!

LXT...........

 

[clearance]

Clearing up some things, with facts

Paths to ground that power uses-Fact-power uses ALL paths to ground.
Steelcores around powerlines-Fact-as long as you do not violate your limits of approach for conductive equipment you will be fine.
What is conductive?-Fact-Unless it carries a valid di-electric test sticker, it is conductive, end of story, never mind the tales.
Re: RBTree mouthing off- "I am not a certified line clearance worker" quote. Nuff said.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:


Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!


Back on the Spurs vs. no spurs!!!

 

[rbtree]

Really now, listen up, I climb with spurs, and how do you climb with spurs? With a steelcore. of course, no need to be standing on branches like this poor fellow was. I am stuck into the main stem, I tie in to what I can see to come down, thats it. Now, answer this, all you ISA geniuses, how could this have happened if he had been climbing with spurs and steelcore?????

C'mon now, clearance, use your noggin. He obviously couldn't cut the branch while attached to the trunk, so he went out on it. I already stated what I think happened, which is that he needed to have a high tie, and work out on the limb. Whether he had spurs on or not is irrelevant. The branch most likely needed to be rigged, with a tip tie, overhead rope run through a pulley to allow for the branch to be lifted away from the primary which it most likely hung over.

 

[clearance]

Maybe so RB, I'm beat, its been a tough weekend for me.

 

[ropensaddle]

I have climbed a lot of hot trees and with spurs but
if it is hot to the point where lifting with a rope makes
contact or dropping does the same I will climb and get
above the limb and prune it clear with a good rated pruner
with a clean dry pull cord then hinge it or rope it!
If you are above the point of contact most of the current
will pass below you as it takes the easiest path to ground.
I have felt indirect contact several times, as back then they
waited way too long to trim and every tree was smoking.
The wind blows you feel it but not usually enough to panic!
I say usually because once some one stole the grounds
for copper and I got in a spot was not even ten foot off
the ground and everything I touched shocked me, it sucked
had to holler for a pruner and problem solved was a bad
day. After that day I made it a point in burning areas to
check grounds on poles !

 

[clearance]

I have climbed a lot of hot trees and with spurs but
if it is hot to the point where lifting with a rope makes
contact or dropping does the same I will climb and get
above the limb and prune it clear with a good rated pruner
with a clean dry pull cord then hinge it or rope it!

Please explain what you mean by the term "hot" tree.

 

[ropensaddle]

Paths to ground that power uses-Fact-power uses ALL paths to ground.
Steelcores around powerlines-Fact-as long as you do not violate your limits of approach for conductive equipment you will be fine.
What is conductive?-Fact-Unless it carries a valid di-electric test sticker, it is conductive, end of story, never mind the tales.
Re: RBTree mouthing off- "I am not a certified line clearance worker" quote. Nuff said.

Fact yes current takes any path but make no mistake
If you are in direct path approach distance doesn't mean your safe
I have more time spent than anyone I know not bragging at all just
worked and done all the burners for too many years. Fact if you
are on the limb above the burning limb you will feel less current
if any at all because the burning limb is the path to ground and you
are out of its path I hope this helped you I do not mean anything but help!

 

[ropensaddle]

Please explain what you mean by the term "hot" tree.

A hot tree come on I know you Know that !

 

[clearance]

Fact yes current takes any path but make no mistake
If you are in direct path approach distance doesn't mean your safe
I have more time spent than anyone I know not bragging at all just
worked and done all the burners for too many years. Fact if you
are on the limb above the burning limb you will feel less current
if any at all because the burning limb is the path to ground and you
are out of its path I hope this helped you I do not mean anything but help!

That is what I was afraid of, climbing a tree with the primary touching it. Full on retarded, full on lunacy. Feel less current? You are insane. Trees touching need a line kill, that is denergized and grounded. Or if you can do it from an insulated bucket truck. Please tell me you are joking around. Anyone else here, for real now, if its touching or even close, (like within 3' of a 12kv line for example) do not climb it.

 

[ropensaddle]

That is what I was afraid of, climbing a tree with the primary touching it. Full on retarded, full on lunacy. Feel less current? You are insane. Trees touching need a line kill, that is denergized and grounded. Or if you can do it from an insulated bucket truck. Please tell me you are joking around. Anyone else here, for real now, if its touching or even close, (like within 3' of a 12kv line for example) do not climb it.

Clearance you are a hoot
as back then they would laugh you off the job if you refused to do your job, a hot tree is one that has been burning not touching but can be safely trimmed! I have more experience in my left pinky than You will obtain and even though shutting power down would be safer, it will not be done as customers being out of power for days not gonna happen. Getting a bucket on the sides of mountains not possible!