Wiseco piston update from Baileys

[blsnelling]

I bought a nice 066 flattop lastnight. I have a couple 460s. I've got a 372 currently wearing a BB that I'm shopping for a 50mm cylinder for, and I have an offer to put a 440 piston in a saw to be milled with. If Baileys wants me to check out these cylinders, I will do so on these saws. Next time, I'll think twice, maybe three times, before I make an offer. Part of this was my fault, I've admitted as much and appologized. The rest of it tires me to no end.

 

[Stihl088stock]

By the way, Since everyone seems to be ripping on Brad for charging $50 labor

WHAT DO CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS CHARGE FOR A PISTON SWAP???

 

[Maldeney]

And?? The difference is? I can think of many builders testing suspension setups ups or motorsetups with other companies products as well. Are you implying that since BLsnelling doesn't build the pistons, he doesn't have the right to do the testing of something He may settle on within his customer base? I completely dissagree. Think of all the motorbuilders out there who use aftermarket parts in their builds...and the piston in these saws can be a major component therefore relevent.

The implication here is when he builds saws that can use the wiseco piston he will if they show the ability to stand up to his value add....same as some like shop building a suspension setup using another companies springs or seals.

I think the issue here is the clash between aftermarket and OEM and performance aftermarket builders vs current mainstream saw support. There is no "specification" on how a builder gets exposure and attracts interest. This is a legitimate way and has obviously done just that...now I want to know how those saws (if there are any yet) perform after being fitted with Wiseco pistons!

i'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, but having been in the motorcycle business, I see this saw world going thru fits and jerks as it tries to morph into something other than simply a tool supplier towards encompassing a more enthusiast flavor for a segment of the market.

Part of what has killed American inovation is all the paper barriers between those with an inovative spirit and the customer base.

You are still talking about two different things. First you are talking about the manufacturer sending out the "new" parts to race teams (the end user) for product testing, second you are talking about a Middle man "TESTING FOR BAILEY'S" whom I might add is another middle man.

Point being is the first thing you speak of is how it shoudl be done. The second is not especially with the thought of having to (as the end user) subject my personal equipment to a "test" that I have to pay for. With no mention of liability if something goes wrong due to the product.

Just saying you are speaking of two different things.

 

[weimedog]

I bought a nice 066 flattop lastnight. I have a couple 460s. I've got a 372 currently wearing a BB that I'm shopping for a 50mm cylinder for, and I have an offer to put a 440 piston in a saw to be milled with. If Baileys wants me to check out these cylinders, I will do so on these saws. Next time, I'll think twice, maybe three times, before I make an offer. Part of this was my fault, I've admitted as much and appologized. The rest of it tires me to no end.

Not as tired as your going to be if this thread continues and those with a performance spirit see you as a way to help express that with saws...this is a good thing for you. The wet blankets aren't hurting you at all. Most see the objections for what it is. For that matter controversy generates interest...get those saws out and start posting the results and EVERYONE will be interested. Even those lurking who won't post. This is perfect. See it for what it is..a great way to get interest.

 

[Maldeney]

By the way, Since everyone seems to be ripping on Brad for charging $50 labor

WHAT DO CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS CHARGE FOR A PISTON SWAP???

For a "test' NOTHING I WOULD BET!

I bet THALL can atest to that.

 

[Fastcast]

By the way, Since everyone seems to be ripping on Brad for charging $50 labor

WHAT DO CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS CHARGE FOR A PISTON SWAP???

I believe it was in the context of first saying $50 labor/my services and than saying I have nothing to benefit, I'm not making any money.

"CERTIFIED GOLDIFIED STIHLIFIED DEALERS" Have an education, credentials and pay their taxes and are held responsible for their work.

Maybe Brad has and does all these things too....I don't know. :dunno:

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy All,
Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
Regards
Gregg

 

[Freehand]

 

[weimedog]

You are still talking about two different things. First you are talking about the manufacturer sending out the "new" parts to race teams (the end user) for product testing, second you are talking about a Middle man "TESTING FOR BAILEY'S" whom I might add is another middle man.

Point being is the first thing you speak of is how it shoudl be done. The second is not especially with the thought of having to (as the end user) subject my personal equipment to a "test" that I have to pay for. With no mention of liability if something goes wrong due to the product.

Just saying you are speaking of two different things.

I don't see that as an issue. I see that as splitting hairs. I've see this same scenario played out over and over in the racing world as there are many who massage aftermarket parts to build a better mouse trap. Think of all those guys who flow heads, put in different valves, massage valving in suspension made by other companies..this is the same. Think of all the half baked products that got tested that no longer are on the market...this could happen here...(I doubt it with the companies involved) The market corrects those issues. The difference is that racing industry is about a pass time, a recreational activity and this one not to this point in time..but is changing in that direction for some.

I see this as an opportunity to get exposure as a builder with a new interesting & possibly better product. Its not like he's putting out hundreds. He's just finding those few who would be interested...and since this is a "free market" rather than trash the concept, let the market decide. Those who are interested will respond, those who aren't won't. If Wiseco or Bailey's have an issue they will respond..or even help..if not who cares? Way too much negative energy.

My suggestion? if your not interested...go away. If you are? Participate with eye open (if he will even do this after the wet blankets) and ALL should keep an eye as the results will be interesting to all who would build those saws..to you blsnelling? kudo's for the post. I would NEVER have found out Wiseco was entering into the market if this posting had not happened. Even if I had, this will be a tangible reference point to track how they are doing relative to the many alternatives you have used in the past. Having an open conversation such as this helps all your potential customers pick the direction they would go.

 

[weimedog]

Howdy All,
Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
Regards
Gregg

Thank you for bringing home grown products to the market place. I will spend the difference if I know its staying home. Please don't run from the Wiseco option because of bunch of cyber trash talk. My bet is way more support the wiseco concept than don't

 

[weimedog]

For a "test' NOTHING I WOULD BET!

I bet THALL can atest to that.

I doubt it would make any sense for THALL to test some internal engine part. he has a great stable product that has been tested and doesn't need to hang himself out in that way ...he's not a performance saw builder. He's a great dealer of OEM high quality products and his customers wouldn't go to him for a ..test. His time is money and has the backing of the no. 1 chainsaw builder in the world to do that market research and testing...thats their job...but he can speak (quite well) for himself.

 

[Tzed250]

Howdy All,
Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
Regards
Gregg

Thank you very much for giving your customers another choice, and making it a made in USA choice is icing on the cake!!!


.

 

[Maldeney]

I doubt it would make any sense for THALL to test some internal engine part. he has a great stable product that has been tested and doesn't need to hang himself out in that way ...he's not a performance saw builder. He's a great dealer of OEM high quality products and his customers wouldn't go to him for a ..test. His time is money and has the backing of the no. 1 chainsaw builder in the world to do that market research and testing...thats their job...but he can speak (quite well) for himself.

But wait.... I thought that Brad was testing a OEM replacement for "fit and finish and longevity"......... Since when or where was it stated that this was for performance saws? I might have to walk away from this discussion.. It keeps changing point to try and Massage the topic.

 

[Freehand]

Huh?

 

[Justsaws]

Absolutely. I'm not trying to "swindle" anyone out of their OEM pistons.


I always stand behind my work.


I think you're forgetting whose pistons these are. They're not mine.


Again, I think you're forgetting that these aren't my pistons. I'll stand behind my work anyday. But I don't have the resources, nor the responsibility to stand behind a bad product. The pistons are free. You're only paying for my labor. You know the risks up front. If you're another enthusiast and want to see how these pistons do, then have at it. Otherwise, this deal isn't for you.

Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you possibly un-tested promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.

Please be more careful. Good luck with this.

 

[Banacanin]

Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.

Please be more careful. Good luck with this.

google offer to treat and invitation to treat

 

[stipes]

Well Grande Dog....

Howdy All,
Well, glad to see this little project didn't get sideways. We get customer suggestions all the time to increase our selection and quality to cost ratios. We take these suggestions seriously, and try to get what people want. As many of you have read on here, we've taken a bunch of flak about "chicom parts". We saw the Wiseco deal as a win win because we could be Made in the USA, and be aftermarket. I don't know who has been to your dealer lately to by the OEM piston but, if you do, you'll see the pricing on these are not out of line, and they're made here to boot. It seems to me most of the posts on this thread were about the semantics of the word "testing". We've been selling these pistons since last October. We haven't received one negative comment about them except for pricing. The price will come down if sales continue the way they are. Brad's words are Brad's words. I don't tell him what to say. I think he made that clear in his later posts. His offer, is his offer. If someone wants to take him up on it, that's their prerogative.
Regards
Gregg

I'm one taker,,cause I wanna see what they are made off...Gonna be like Paul Harvey,,and the rest of the story...Good or bad,,,gonna put it tru the worst condition on a saw...Millin.....
To me this is gonna be fun....I'll keep a log of hours use,,gas consumtion the longer it's used,,,how it's gettin broken in...It's gonna be balls to the wall,,hardcore use...See how it lasts tru this spring to the fall tru cutting Ky. red oak... Hell yes I'm excited....
I'll give my honest thoughts,no BS to anyone....I'll mill with this as I do my jred 2186...The piston looks like brand new still when I pulled it apart when I had trouble with the fuel vent tube...Lets see how this holds up folks...Just be patience,,,have fun with me as I try it out....It'll be it is what it is....Good or bad,,,I know I'll have some fun...

 

[weimedog]

But wait.... I thought that Brad was testing a OEM replacement for "fit and finish and longevity"......... Since when or where was it stated that this was for performance saws? I might have to walk away from this discussion.. It keeps changing point to try and Massage the topic.

No not really. But don't do this for a pride issue as no one wins.

What does Brad DO? The perception is he builds performance saws and looks at components from that stand point. If they work well for Brad, he's a test for the bleeding edge and therefore a superset of most saws. (Hard core production saws are a different story) Why would a normal CAD person be interested? Because:

1) This is a possible alternative to OEM
2) This is a possible BETTER alternative to OEM
3) This is a possible BETTER built in the USA alternative to OEM
4) This is a possibly BETTER than OEM alternative, built in the US of A, and can be had either from a keyboard or a phone call.
5) All the 1-4 issues with an outside possiblilty of a true performance gain..
6) Forged Pistons have been used in bleeding edge performance applications as they can be more durable in some situations than cast (Key word is some)...and that might appeal to the production sawyers.

All of those things makes this interesting. All Brad has done is link this product to his business by asking if there would be interest in testing a new product...sort of like a motor builder asking a few to try a new aftermarket carb setup (new jets & slide) before going to market with it..same thing.

With these saws, the piston volume and windows has to have some impact of saw performance. I know that Golf piston I put in a saw was both bigger and had smaller windows than the OEM....that contrary to a priors expert post looked to be forged...but I don't know for certain..yet.

 

[Justsaws]

google offer to treat and invitation to treat

I do not know what that is supposed to mean. You will have to be more specific.

 

[weimedog]

Sounds good put that information in bold print the next time you do an offer, if you choose to do one. Be upfront, specific with the details and make sure to place the liabilities in writing where you would like them to be as soon as possible. You are literally publicly offering to install free to you possibly un-tested promotional items in someones privately held possession for your profit over the Internet. That is a risky situation for everyone involved.

Please be more careful. Good luck with this.

Why? Who's at risk here? Only Brad..ts a first come first serve by definition. So why bother being so specifiic..the PM's and phone calls will flush all that out and then one can either participate or not...free market. Actually the ones I would be worried about are those who are looking for a free ride and would see this as a way to get something for less than somewhere else. Not Brad's intent and HE can say no as well. This was an informal communication to call those of interest to try something new...and all the details would give both parties the info needed to move or not to...so who cares how the offer was put out? If I'm Brad I may not do this again in public because of all the BS..but would go to the customer base to see if there are those interested. to the rest ...the wet blankets could kill a good attitude here.