YOU can't hand file properly!!
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garyischofield
ArboristSite Operative
I'm not insulted
I think 95% of chain saw users do have problems filing without a grinder or file guide.Looking back at my chain performance(cutting speed,smoothness,self feeding)I'm a lot better now than I was in 1980.I've constantly been playing with angles andfile diameters in search the "perfect cutting chain". I file freehand with a pine limb as a handle.You'd think you would have nothing to learn after the first 5 years of steady sharpening(a chain a week) but in the last 5 years I'd say I'm there.I check out my angles (both sides)constantly to keep producing the angles that work for me.Production cutting accentuates performance/lack of performance.Fell ,limb and buck logs for 8-12 hours a day, small gains add up financially and reduce effort expended.I use the file held against the cutter as a way to gauge cutter lengths.It is an art.Then there is always chisel bit filing:hmm3grin2orange:My $.02Gary
I think 95% of chain saw users do have problems filing without a grinder or file guide.Looking back at my chain performance(cutting speed,smoothness,self feeding)I'm a lot better now than I was in 1980.I've constantly been playing with angles andfile diameters in search the "perfect cutting chain". I file freehand with a pine limb as a handle.You'd think you would have nothing to learn after the first 5 years of steady sharpening(a chain a week) but in the last 5 years I'd say I'm there.I check out my angles (both sides)constantly to keep producing the angles that work for me.Production cutting accentuates performance/lack of performance.Fell ,limb and buck logs for 8-12 hours a day, small gains add up financially and reduce effort expended.I use the file held against the cutter as a way to gauge cutter lengths.It is an art.Then there is always chisel bit filing:hmm3grin2orange:My $.02Gary
Fish
Tree Freak
There are people that do a great job at hand filing, and many, many more that are terrible at it.
There are people that do a great job using a grinder, and many, many, many more that are terrible and butcher chains.
One thing is for certain, you cannot give a longtime logger/wood cutter any advice, they get very defensive. They will never change their thoughts on anything unless it is shown them in some sort of contest/test/comparison....
There are people that do a great job using a grinder, and many, many, many more that are terrible and butcher chains.
One thing is for certain, you cannot give a longtime logger/wood cutter any advice, they get very defensive. They will never change their thoughts on anything unless it is shown them in some sort of contest/test/comparison....
Fish
Tree Freak
Most of these old guys have to get out their reading glasses to read their bill, but don't even look at their chain while they sharpen it, but
insist they know how to get those angles perfect, their top plate angles are usually off 20 degrees from right to left side, and the side plate angle is unknown because they don't realize that this is the most important angle, and they don't worry much about file diameter on their
particular model chain.
insist they know how to get those angles perfect, their top plate angles are usually off 20 degrees from right to left side, and the side plate angle is unknown because they don't realize that this is the most important angle, and they don't worry much about file diameter on their
particular model chain.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I enjoy filing my chains, and I can't imagine paying someone to do a simple, basic task like sharpening a chain, any more than I would tuning my saw. If you want to use a tool you must learn how to use it and take care of it. Would a man have gone out into the field with a scythe and not taken along a whetstone, would a carpenter not know how to sharpen his chisels? I don't own a file guide. I do have a very cheap grinder that was given to me - I regard it as a nice way to bring back chain that has been rocked or damaged, or to reset the angles. But it's just the first step, and I would not expect to actually use a chain right off the grinder without finishing it by hand (maybe that's because it's a cheap grinder).
And I'm just a firewood hack - the chain is very likely to get some abuse on every tank, sometimes more, sometimes less. What am I gonna do, walk back to the barn every time, or change the chain because I misjudged and touched it down once? I'd never get anything done, and I'd be paying plenty.
And I'm just a firewood hack - the chain is very likely to get some abuse on every tank, sometimes more, sometimes less. What am I gonna do, walk back to the barn every time, or change the chain because I misjudged and touched it down once? I'd never get anything done, and I'd be paying plenty.
Officer's Match
Addicted to ArboristSite
My hand filing is steadily improving, and the benefits to me are cost, convenience and chain longevity. I've had the same 3/8" full chisel on my 2153 for over 14 cords now, and much has been fairly dirty Locust. I doubt seriously that it would still be in service had it been resharpened by machine during that period.
My experience with people that sharpen chains is that they will grind away 1/3 of your chain before you get it back. At that rate, you will be buying lots of new chains.
If you're just cutting some wood around the house, then having someone sharpen the chain might be ok. If you're out in the woods, not being able to sharpen the chain is a liability. I touch mine up every tank with a file, and it seems to work pretty well.
My sharpening isn't perfect, and after awhile, a chain may need to be evened up for cutting in large logs, so I can see it halfway though the life of a chain, but I try to avoid it.
If you're just cutting some wood around the house, then having someone sharpen the chain might be ok. If you're out in the woods, not being able to sharpen the chain is a liability. I touch mine up every tank with a file, and it seems to work pretty well.
My sharpening isn't perfect, and after awhile, a chain may need to be evened up for cutting in large logs, so I can see it halfway though the life of a chain, but I try to avoid it.
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah, and guns kill people too.......
Poor ginder operators eat cutters way too fast (and burn the teeth) Blaming the machine is just silly.
A file MAY be quicker, if you just need a couple strokes per tooth to touch up a chain. But I'll still have a freshly sharpened chain on the saw and be cutting again quicker than a touch up with a file.
Residential tree service means I see lots of metal, lots of crap filled hollows, and lots of dirt and rocks as stumps are being flushed. Generally when a chain gets dulled, it's not needing a touch up.
I keep an ammo can of chains, tools, and files with me all the time. Dull chain come off, gets tossed in the can, and a fresh one comes out. Once a week or so I'll spend a half hour or hour with the grinder, and have a box full of good as new chains.
I'd much rather minimize my time on the jobsite (with people on the clock) and sharpen when it's convenient for me, instead of having to sharpen to finish my job.
Oldtimer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Every 2 times I'd pay for a grinding, I can buy a new chain...
I have never seen a ground chain cut worth a damn as compared to a properly tuned hand filing. And I mean round file. I would love to see and learn how square filing is done, and try a properly square filed chain.
Who here will send me a 24" square filed husky chain? I'll send a pre-paid box USPS, with the cost of the chain inside. PM me.
I have never seen a ground chain cut worth a damn as compared to a properly tuned hand filing. And I mean round file. I would love to see and learn how square filing is done, and try a properly square filed chain.
Who here will send me a 24" square filed husky chain? I'll send a pre-paid box USPS, with the cost of the chain inside. PM me.
eat a peach
ArboristSite Operative
This has been my experience also. 30 yrs ago when I had to pay for sharpening ,the guy who did my first one told me I was about ready for a new chain . The problem was it had been sharpen by him ONCE before ,this was the second go round for a new chain. I learned how to file after that.:msp_thumbdn:
I'm from the camp that believes its not rocket science, maybe it can be but doesnt have to be. Just a firewood cutter here and hand file is all ive ever done. Never ever had a chain sharpened by a grinder after purchasing it. Have always been able to make a dull chain better. Now under a microscope is there room for improvement, accuracy, and consistency, absolutely no doubt that there is. My woodpile does not seem to suffer one bit, and like Oldtimer said, after a couple sharpenings you could have bought a new chain. Oh yeah, ive only been at it for four seasons, it aint that difficult to get respectably decent results in my opinion. Being in the aluminum fabricating business has given me 33 years filing experience with a different material but some basic techniques and a desired outcome is the same.
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ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
A couple years ago my ammo can went missing (I think it got left sitting on the truck bumper), so I started again with all new chains. Since then I've had 3 chains wrecked by someone else throwing the chain and demolishing the drive links. I've had zero chains tossed because the cutters were worn out. Several in the box have been on the grinder a few dozen times.
And the nice thing is, every time you pull a fresh one out of the can, it cuts very much like a new chain. Every tooth the same length, every cutter angle exactly the same, every side plate angle the same, every time.
Once a person has learned to use a decent quality grinder well, it's faster than filing with a guide, and far more consistent than filing freehand.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with hand filing. A good hand filer can do a great job quickly of putting a good edge on a chain that's not already out of whack. But once it's been rocked, or nailed, or hand filed at different angles a few times, nothing but a grinder is going to get it back to factory specs in a reasonable time.
And the nice thing is, every time you pull a fresh one out of the can, it cuts very much like a new chain. Every tooth the same length, every cutter angle exactly the same, every side plate angle the same, every time.
Once a person has learned to use a decent quality grinder well, it's faster than filing with a guide, and far more consistent than filing freehand.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with hand filing. A good hand filer can do a great job quickly of putting a good edge on a chain that's not already out of whack. But once it's been rocked, or nailed, or hand filed at different angles a few times, nothing but a grinder is going to get it back to factory specs in a reasonable time.
Fish
Tree Freak
My goal when sharpening is to make it cut as good as, if not better, than new.
Let's throw up some pics, so we can discuss it with more info.
fearofpavement
Trying them all
The OP's posting of the CL ad was probably likely accurate and i would take exception to primarily the life of the chain. I don't think saying machine filing of a chain is going to extend the life over hand filing. That doesn't make sense to me based on my actual experiences with both.
I do think there is some truth to the statement about hand filing getting the angles incorrect and so forth. I personally haven't made timed cuts but my hand filed chains cut well enough to make me happy and I got one sharpened by a saw shop ONE TIME and decided that I couldn't afford that. Based on how much material was removed I figured I would only be able to have them sharpen it twice (3 at best) and I just didn't see that as being affordable. A friend of mine purchased chain in rolls and when a chain got dull he would replace it with a new chain. He said for what it cost to have the chains sharpened, he could replace them.
I free-hand sharpen all my chains and I am sure the cutter angles are not perfect, the rakers aren't exactly the same and so forth. But it works for me and makes chips. Because I sharpen each tooth as an individual and not necessarily try to make it match all the other ones, (hey, I said it works for me, do your own differently) is why when people have a chain cutting curves and posters on here say it's because all your teeth aren't the same length or you rakers aren't set correctly and so forth that I know this is rarely the case because all my hand sharpened chains cut straight even if they look like they need a visit to an orthodontist. All the cases of curved cutting I have experienced have been due to the chain being dull on one side. Never had a bar cause it and never an inconsistent sharpening job.
In the thread on the new style chain sharpener that uses the carbide crank cutter, it was interesting to note in there that many stated they thought their hand filed chains were perfect until they jigged it up with that and found their angles weren't as exact as they thought.
So, while the CL ad may have been a little over the top, I essentially agree with most of what he was saying, yet will continue to free hand file my chains...
I do think there is some truth to the statement about hand filing getting the angles incorrect and so forth. I personally haven't made timed cuts but my hand filed chains cut well enough to make me happy and I got one sharpened by a saw shop ONE TIME and decided that I couldn't afford that. Based on how much material was removed I figured I would only be able to have them sharpen it twice (3 at best) and I just didn't see that as being affordable. A friend of mine purchased chain in rolls and when a chain got dull he would replace it with a new chain. He said for what it cost to have the chains sharpened, he could replace them.
I free-hand sharpen all my chains and I am sure the cutter angles are not perfect, the rakers aren't exactly the same and so forth. But it works for me and makes chips. Because I sharpen each tooth as an individual and not necessarily try to make it match all the other ones, (hey, I said it works for me, do your own differently) is why when people have a chain cutting curves and posters on here say it's because all your teeth aren't the same length or you rakers aren't set correctly and so forth that I know this is rarely the case because all my hand sharpened chains cut straight even if they look like they need a visit to an orthodontist. All the cases of curved cutting I have experienced have been due to the chain being dull on one side. Never had a bar cause it and never an inconsistent sharpening job.
In the thread on the new style chain sharpener that uses the carbide crank cutter, it was interesting to note in there that many stated they thought their hand filed chains were perfect until they jigged it up with that and found their angles weren't as exact as they thought.
So, while the CL ad may have been a little over the top, I essentially agree with most of what he was saying, yet will continue to free hand file my chains...
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I agree. Many of my chains have an extra cutter on one side, or a gap to make it match up. Some have had a cutter damaged - I do not shorten all the others to match it, I fix that cutter. My chains still cut straight.
I'd really like to try a loop of square grind so I could set the side plate angles independently from the top plate angles. I think it would be fun to work on and will get some (and a file) eventually.
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