60 FT OAK TREE MAY HAVE PROBLEMS

[mspope111]

Hello Everyone,

We live in the state of Alabama. The winds and tornadoes here can be scary! Many loose their trees falling on their homes and lots of damage. About 2 years ago, my next door neighbor back-filled his concrete driveway that was severely cracked due to a 100 ft Oak tree planted 1-2 feet from his driveway and then sold his home. We had talked to him about the roots encroaching on our property eventually and damaging our water lines as well as tree branches and every freakin leaf falls onto our property over months. The tree is less than 8 feet from the property line. Also, the tree has a 4 ft. hole in it which leads us to believe it is unsafe especially when the winds blow west which may fall onto our property.

Attached you will find a few pictures of the tree. We talked to the new owners about cutting back the branches that are intermingling into our trees on our property but we got the middle finger. We are trying to figure out what our next step is. Our concern is that the tree is not healthy. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Best Regards, Homeowner in Alabama...

 

[SS396driver]

I would call the town. Most times they actually own 10 to 15 feet in from the road or have right of way. If they deam it's a hazard they will take it down because if its their tree once notified the become liable for it. Nothing the owner of the house can do about it.

If the branches that are intertwined with your trees is on your side of the property line you can prune the limbs that overhang into your property. But just to the property line.

 

[Raintree]

You're in Alabama I'm betting you don't have much recourse against a tree issue with a neighbor, my advice is live and let live.
Get a good walk behind leaf blower, a good home owners policy and choose not to let this rob you of your peace.
Is the tree a hazard? Looking at the pics most likely. Are you willing to fund the removal if given the opportunity? Approach the neighbor with an offer.
The good news is, it's been storm tested and still standing. The tree is compensating from structural loss with reactionary growth (bulking up weak areas) and the canopy is sheltered
In a twister situation when all trees are at risk, why is one more through your roof going to matter.

 

[ATH]

A hollow area doesn't automatically make the tree significantly more prone to failure. Would they let you hire a Tree Risk Assessment Qualified arborist evaluate the tree? If you let them pick the arborist? Go here: treesaregood.org to look for one in your area. It would really take accessing the tree to make a good assessment, so if they do not grant permission, you would have to trespass to do that (or ask the contractor to trespass - don't do that without telling them the neighbor is hostile).

Look at the tree on a windy day. does that crack at the base move? If so, that MAY be more concerning (or may not).

You are probably allowed to prune the branches back to the property line assuming it doesn't damage the tree. I don't prune a neighbor's tree without their permission even though it is allowed by law. Just not worth the fight to me.

 

[mspope111]

Anymore comments/advice?

 

[CacaoBoy]

Anymore comments/advice?

Since you are concerned and not getting cooperation from the neighbor, consider consulting an attorney regarding what rights you may have.

If, in fact, the tree is a hazard and that hazard is made known to the tree owner, and the owner fails to cure the hazard, the tree owner may be liable for any damage resulting from that hazard. While the hazard may seem obvious to you, unless you are a qualified arborist your opinion, by itself, may be of little value in establishing that there is an actual hazard. If the tree is healthy but it blows over or drops branches in a storm, then it may be that the tree owner has no liability. Likewise, while you may have a general right to trim branches to the extent they overhang your property, as ATH pointed out if doing so harms the tree it may be you who becomes liable if the tree falls, drops branches, dies, or needs arborist services to recover. But these are issues that may vary depending on your local law, hence the suggestion to consult an attorney.

Prior to consulting an attorney you might do a search for "nuisance tree law" to get a general understanding of the issues. And prior to consulting an attorney it might be best to get the opinion of a qualified arborist since the attorney would be likely to encourage you to hire one anyway. If the arborist says there is nothing to worry about, then you may avoid paying the attorney. If the arborist says to worry, then perhaps giving a copy of the arborist's report to the neighbor would get the cooperation you feel has been lacking.

 

[mspope111]

Thank you!

 

[sb47]

If a home owner knows there tree is damaged and is a potential hazard and they don't do anything about it. They are liable if it does come down. I would document with photos and give written notice to the home owner. That way they would be liable if it does fall. Also send those photos to your HOA if you have one. That way they can't claim they didn't know the tree was damaged. That is about all you can do. I would send a letter registered mail with signature required so you have proof they were properly notified. Trees like this are unpredictable, they may stand for decades or fall tomorrow.
You might see if the new home owner can get the seller to remove it as part of the pre sale inspection report. I would not have bought the house without having that tree removed before I signed the closing papers.

 

[mspope111]

If a home owner knows there tree is damaged and is a potential hazard and they don't do anything about it. They are liable if it does come down. I would document with photos and give written notice to the home owner. That way they would be liable if it does fall. Also send those photos to your HOA if you have one. That way they can't claim they didn't know the tree was damaged. That is about all you can do. I would send a letter registered mail with signature required so you have proof they were properly notified. Trees like this are unpredictable, they may stand for decades or fall tomorrow.
You might see if the new home owner can get the seller to remove it as part of the pre sale inspection report. I would not have bought the house without having that tree removed before I signed the closing papers.

 

[mspope111]

They bought the house BECAUSE of the tree... Not only did they fix the driveway and pave over the cracks caused by the roots before sale, every bit of it's liter lands on my property until the first leaf fallen in fall until May! The wind blows them in my garage, every deck and clogs our gutters until May!

 

[sb47]

They bought the house BECAUSE of the tree... Not only did they fix the driveway and pave over the cracks caused by the roots before sale, every bit of it's liter lands on my property until the first leaf fallen in fall until May! The wind blows them in my garage, every deck and clogs our gutters until May!

Well crap! Sounds like you have a fight on your hands. I would still document it and send the letter and make an attempt to get them to remove it.
My bet is if it does fail, it's gonna fall away from the rotten cavity towards the solid part. Most trees like that do fail away from the rotted section. Anything in that direction may be at risk.

 

[ATH]

..... Trees like this are unpredictable, they may stand for decades or fall tomorrow.

"trees like this" - have you inspected it? What are you seeing to make you so certain that it could fall tomorrow...of course, that could be said about any tree anywhere in the world. Could fall tomorrow.

Letters written by a homeowner unqualified to assess the tree won't likely carry any weight. If they did, every insurance company would tell each client to just write a letter for every neighbor's tree - just in case, so they can say "see I told you!". They need an expert opinion.

 

[ATH]

They bought the house BECAUSE of the tree... Not only did they fix the driveway and pave over the cracks caused by the roots before sale, every bit of it's liter lands on my property until the first leaf fallen in fall until May! The wind blows them in my garage, every deck and clogs our gutters until May!

Was the tree there when you bought your house? Kinda hard to complain about the litter if so. Not reasonable to make that part of the reason to push for removal...IMHO.

That doesn't mean you should tolerate increased risk IF that is the case. But again, until you have an expert review it in person, we just don't know.

 

[sb47]

"trees like this" - have you inspected it? What are you seeing to make you so certain that it could fall tomorrow...of course, that could be said about any tree anywhere in the world. Could fall tomorrow.

Letters written by a homeowner unqualified to assess the tree won't likely carry any weight. If they did, every insurance company would tell each client to just write a letter for every neighbor's tree - just in case, so they can say "see I told you!". They need an expert opinion.

Yes I have done a preliminary evaluation using the photo provided. Anyone with half a brain cell can see the tree is structurally flawed. It doesn't mean the tree will fall anytime soon. I would not want a tree like that hanging over my head.

 

[ATH]

There can be a LOT of wood missing and the tree can still have the majority of its strength. Neither you nor I have any idea how deep or wide that decay goes. There is good looking response growth, so it may not be nearly as weak as you are thinking. It has probably looked like that for years, if not decades - yet, there it stands. That is an important data point.
I'm not saying it is sound/or that there is a low probability of failure. I am saying it should be evaluated on site by a well qualified arborist who is trained to assess tree risk, not somebody who thinks every tree with a cavity is high risk.

 

[mbrick]

Was the tree there when you bought your house? Kinda hard to complain about the litter if so. Not reasonable to make that part of the reason to push for removal...IMHO.

This is a good question. People move in next to a well established tree, business, etc. And then complain and get it shut down because they don't like it. I just hope that isn't the case here.

Needs a professional evaluation to determine if it is a hazard.

 

[sb47]

A solid piece of anything round and long like a tree trunk is very much like long piece of round of steel. For instance a drive shaft is hollow because it is stronger then a solid piece of metal. The inner wall ads strength both if it's twisted or bent. BUT, if the side wall is compromised then it looses most of that strength and will fail if torqued or bent. A tree needs strength from torque and from being bent and in compression. In many ways a hollow tree can be stronger then a solid tree but once the side wall is compromised it looses most of that strength.

 

[ATH]

Kinda...hollow is NOT stronger. Hollow means higher strength:weight ratio.

If the driveshaft were solid, it would not be weaker...in fact it would be slightly stronger. HOWEVER, it would weigh a lot more. So they increase the diameter a little and take most of the center out to get the same strength of a smaller diameter solid rod, but drop a lot of weight.

The majority of the strength of a cylinder or rod is in its outer wall. So they question becomes: "how much outer wall do I need?"

With a tree, the longer it stands hollow, often the stronger it becomes because Wall 4 is so effective, the rot doesn't spread into the outer wall of the cylinder, but the diameter is increasing.

But yes 100% to a compromised sidewall being a concern.

Trees "know" this which is why reaction wood around a wound grows faster than other wood and is stronger. It is trying to compensate for the loss and close the opening.

 

[sb47]

A solid piece of anything round and long like a tree trunk is very much like long piece of round of steel. For instance a drive shaft is hollow because it is stronger then a solid piece of metal. The inner wall ads strength both if it's twisted or bent. BUT, if the side wall is compromised then it looses most of that strength and will fail if torqued or bent. A tree needs strength from torque and from being bent and in compression. In many ways a hollow tree can be stronger then a solid tree but once the side wall is compromised it looses most of that strength.

Yes and no. A drive shaft was the wrong analogy because of the need to reduce weight and it is only needing torqe strength. However it's is a fact that a hollow tube can be stronger then a solid shaft. Side wall thickness is a factor. A tubular rod has an inner wall and an outer wall. The inner wall adds strength and is a x 2 factor to the outer wall, again depending on thickness of said wall. If that wall is compromised it will become substantially weaker. A tree must withstand compression, torque, and being bent or shear force. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

 

[ATH]

Had to look that up/read more. Interesting...seems that there are some circumstances where a tube is straight up stronger. Thanks!