sunfish
Fish Head
I free hand file most of the time, but the Husky thing does work. File the notches on the guide to make it set lower if you want the file to get down in the gullet more.
A simple yet effective filing guide? Roller guide?
- Thread starter rustyb
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sunfish
Fish Head
I also use the raker guide a lot.
Big_Wood
westcoast dweller
well why didn't i think of that lol i used it for a month back in the early 2000's. it's not so much about the gullet, it's about getting the 7/32 file down low enough to profile the cutting section of the tooth for optimum performance. this is why i think a 3/16 file would be the ticket. these are my observations from many many years ago though so they may have improved it? there comes a point when a guy can file just as accurate as the guides. i even do my rakers by eye these days and i always have a smooth cutting chain. last hungry chain i made the rakers were done on a 511ax grinder.
SawTroll
Information Collector
It will, if you change it correctly - widening the slots that fits over the chain until they just fits the wider Stihl chain, and making the forward ones slightly deeper, to suit the Stihl RSC/RS chain (that has lower cutters up front than the LP/LPX, that the blue bodied 3/8" guide really is made for).
SawTroll
Information Collector
One point that hasn't been mentioned enough here is that chain files are consumables - so replace them often.
barton174
ArboristSite Guru
Also, if you're sharpening Stihl 3/8" chain, it uses a 13/32 file. I just recently found that out and got some of them.
Mike
Good 'science fair' project.
Hand file a few cutters as best you can. Then mount the roller guide, and test fit a few different files.
Try it, and see how the chain cuts.
Philbert
SawTroll
Information Collector
13/64" (5.2mm).
barton174
ArboristSite Guru
I have almost all of the different file guide except for the Pferd or Stihl models that knock down the rakers (depth gauge) at the same time as you are sharpening the cutters.
I use the bar mount type the least of any but I am generally too impatient to set it up correctly. I have at least four different versions, one is Oregon, one is like the Oregon but painted yellow, the most recent one I received is a vintage model manufactured by Pakard in Des Moines, IA, and I have a couple of the McCulloch version of the bar mount "File N Joint" models as well.
I also have the Husqvarna roller guides for .325 and 3/8" but find they don't really fit or work well with every different chain. Understand I have a lot of different chains from collecting saws, many of which are not currently being manufactured.
I also have several different sizes of a Windsor roller guide, they work pretty well on semi-chisel chain as they were designed specifically for the semi-chisel cutters. I like the look and feel of the Windsor better than the Husky guides.
I also have several different types of file mounted guides, one I will call the "flat" guide that controls the depth of the cut, another I call the "V" guides, and lastly the round guides. The flat and the V do a pretty good job of controlling the depth of the cut and have some machine marks to help with the top plate angle. I do use the V guides extensively on 1/2" and larger pitch chains and they work pretty well, keep in mind that you have a large cutter so it is easier to see what you are doing. I really like the round guides as I can manipulate them to control the depth of the file in the tooth and achieve much more consistent results that when I try to file free hand. Still you have to watch all of the angle simultaneously.
In my opinion, the Carlton File-O-Plates were the best file guides ever made, they come in chipper, semi-chisel, and chisel design to fit the different chain styles, positively control the depth of the file so you don't get too much hook. You can use a smaller file if you need towards the end of the cutter life when the overall height of the tooth is reduced or for making a particularly "fast" chain that won't hold an edge quite as well. The only drawback I find with the File-O-Plates is that I tend to press the file pretty hard against the plate and dull my file too quickly. I won't get too deep into the debate over the "progressive" reduction in the raker/depth gauge height but the depth gauge on the File-O-Plate works very well.
I also have a Carlton grinder that I use for chains that are really rough, I ended up getting two of the CBN wheels 1/8" for .325 and LP chain, 3/16" for regular 3/8" and .404 chain. I did modify the grinder to make the motor reversible so I can always grind into the tooth on both left and right hand cutters.
I don't (yet) have one of the Timberline rigs that use a carbide cutter but I have seen one used on a modern chisel chain and the results were pretty impressive. If all I had was one size chisel chain, I think the Timberline would be a good investment.
At the end of the day, your first step should be to have a selection of quality files on hand and know when to toss them out. Second step is to make sure you can hold the chain positively when filing, if the bar is in good condition I can over tension the chain and clamp one end in the vise while filing, if the bar is too sloppy for that I have a Homelite 410 chain vise that will hold them perfectly still. With a good selection of sharp files, the chain held firmly, and good lighting any of the guides can produce good results if used properly.
When you break in a new file, go gently with it. Think of the teeth on the file like the point on a newly sharpened pencil...a bit a careful use and the tip will hold an edge very well. Excessive pressure at the start will chip the sharp edge and it will never work as well as it could. Not all files are created equal either so when you find one that works well and lasts a long time, try to stick with that brand. Some will suggest 1 to 6 chains and the file is finished but a lot depends on the condition of the chain when you start and how you treat your file(s). Try to prevent files from clattering around in a tool box or workbench drawer, wrap them in a rag or protect them with soda straws to keep them in the best shape.
One final note, I do keep a few of those Dremel type tools and cutters on hand. From time to time you will encounter a chain that has been severely "rocked" and you don't want to spend the time and waste a file on getting those teeth back into shape.
Mark
I use the bar mount type the least of any but I am generally too impatient to set it up correctly. I have at least four different versions, one is Oregon, one is like the Oregon but painted yellow, the most recent one I received is a vintage model manufactured by Pakard in Des Moines, IA, and I have a couple of the McCulloch version of the bar mount "File N Joint" models as well.
I also have the Husqvarna roller guides for .325 and 3/8" but find they don't really fit or work well with every different chain. Understand I have a lot of different chains from collecting saws, many of which are not currently being manufactured.
I also have several different sizes of a Windsor roller guide, they work pretty well on semi-chisel chain as they were designed specifically for the semi-chisel cutters. I like the look and feel of the Windsor better than the Husky guides.
I also have several different types of file mounted guides, one I will call the "flat" guide that controls the depth of the cut, another I call the "V" guides, and lastly the round guides. The flat and the V do a pretty good job of controlling the depth of the cut and have some machine marks to help with the top plate angle. I do use the V guides extensively on 1/2" and larger pitch chains and they work pretty well, keep in mind that you have a large cutter so it is easier to see what you are doing. I really like the round guides as I can manipulate them to control the depth of the file in the tooth and achieve much more consistent results that when I try to file free hand. Still you have to watch all of the angle simultaneously.
In my opinion, the Carlton File-O-Plates were the best file guides ever made, they come in chipper, semi-chisel, and chisel design to fit the different chain styles, positively control the depth of the file so you don't get too much hook. You can use a smaller file if you need towards the end of the cutter life when the overall height of the tooth is reduced or for making a particularly "fast" chain that won't hold an edge quite as well. The only drawback I find with the File-O-Plates is that I tend to press the file pretty hard against the plate and dull my file too quickly. I won't get too deep into the debate over the "progressive" reduction in the raker/depth gauge height but the depth gauge on the File-O-Plate works very well.
I also have a Carlton grinder that I use for chains that are really rough, I ended up getting two of the CBN wheels 1/8" for .325 and LP chain, 3/16" for regular 3/8" and .404 chain. I did modify the grinder to make the motor reversible so I can always grind into the tooth on both left and right hand cutters.
I don't (yet) have one of the Timberline rigs that use a carbide cutter but I have seen one used on a modern chisel chain and the results were pretty impressive. If all I had was one size chisel chain, I think the Timberline would be a good investment.
At the end of the day, your first step should be to have a selection of quality files on hand and know when to toss them out. Second step is to make sure you can hold the chain positively when filing, if the bar is in good condition I can over tension the chain and clamp one end in the vise while filing, if the bar is too sloppy for that I have a Homelite 410 chain vise that will hold them perfectly still. With a good selection of sharp files, the chain held firmly, and good lighting any of the guides can produce good results if used properly.
When you break in a new file, go gently with it. Think of the teeth on the file like the point on a newly sharpened pencil...a bit a careful use and the tip will hold an edge very well. Excessive pressure at the start will chip the sharp edge and it will never work as well as it could. Not all files are created equal either so when you find one that works well and lasts a long time, try to stick with that brand. Some will suggest 1 to 6 chains and the file is finished but a lot depends on the condition of the chain when you start and how you treat your file(s). Try to prevent files from clattering around in a tool box or workbench drawer, wrap them in a rag or protect them with soda straws to keep them in the best shape.
One final note, I do keep a few of those Dremel type tools and cutters on hand. From time to time you will encounter a chain that has been severely "rocked" and you don't want to spend the time and waste a file on getting those teeth back into shape.
Mark
ArthurB
ArboristSite Member
Surprisingly rare that you find something cheap and simple that works so well
No matter what filing help you use the first step is to look at the shape of the chain and the file. A file of the correct size fits snugly into the pre-machined round portion below the cutter. Easy to see when a new file is fitted into this arch on a new chain.
Even free hand filing can be checked and controlled by simply looking at the surface of this area while sharpening the chain. If the whole surface turns shiny after a couple of strokes you are filing at the correct angles as long as the chain hasn't been damaged by improper filing previously... Also, the filing sound will change from a low-pitched coarse rasping or scratching sound to a higher pitched "zee zee" sound as the chain gets sharper.
Using a wrong file can make a chain unusable very quickly and it can be difficult and time consuming to get such a chain back into shape. The key here is practice.
I am a firm believer of becoming firm in simple methods before trying to use complicated stuff. Even a simple file holder can be used at maximum efficiency only if the user knows the principles of filing by hand.
I use Oregon and Stihl file holders and sharpen chain on the bar. I tried the Husqvarna guides but somehow don't like them.
Even free hand filing can be checked and controlled by simply looking at the surface of this area while sharpening the chain. If the whole surface turns shiny after a couple of strokes you are filing at the correct angles as long as the chain hasn't been damaged by improper filing previously... Also, the filing sound will change from a low-pitched coarse rasping or scratching sound to a higher pitched "zee zee" sound as the chain gets sharper.
Using a wrong file can make a chain unusable very quickly and it can be difficult and time consuming to get such a chain back into shape. The key here is practice.
I am a firm believer of becoming firm in simple methods before trying to use complicated stuff. Even a simple file holder can be used at maximum efficiency only if the user knows the principles of filing by hand.
I use Oregon and Stihl file holders and sharpen chain on the bar. I tried the Husqvarna guides but somehow don't like them.
I've been very happy with the Pferd/Stihl guide , one go around and the rakers are done with the cutters .
I made one of my landscaper customers buy one , he's really happy because his mower jockeys can now sharpen a chain and so can he .
Mighty Mouse Logging LLC
I made one of my landscaper customers buy one , he's really happy because his mower jockeys can now sharpen a chain and so can he .
Mighty Mouse Logging LLC
SawTroll
Information Collector
I agree that the File-O-Plates works well on the chain models they are made for, and they work basically the same way as the Husky guides on the rakers - meaning the are progressive, as raker guides should be. They lack the "hard" and "soft" settings for the rakers though.
SawTroll
Information Collector
I regard those as a "stop-gap" design, that only is useful to those who know nothing about chain sharpening, and aren't really interested in learning.
They will never produce really good results, as they mess up the just filed cutters, and won't set the rakers correctly. Then you likely will have to change the files much more often than normal, as the wear won't be distributed properly.
At least this is how it looks to me, after a few discussions on the subject - I haven't tried them myself, and never will....
Nikko - If you look at the photo above you will see the "A" and "B" slots i.e. hard and soft wood depths for the raker/depth gauge. Several of the File-O-Plates have this feature or other options for varying the height of the depth gauges. There are a few examples that do not have that provision as well.
At this point I think I have perhaps 8 or 10 different versions of the File-O-Plates for different pitch chains (.325, 3/8 LP, 3/8, .404) and different cutter types (Chipper, Semi-Chisel, Chisel, Guard Link). Over the course of production they changed some of the part numbers and made subtle changes to the design of the plates; I am trying to keep a full compliment on hand. There were even a few "private labels" as I have at least two different versions that were stamped with the McCulloch name.
Mark
At this point I think I have perhaps 8 or 10 different versions of the File-O-Plates for different pitch chains (.325, 3/8 LP, 3/8, .404) and different cutter types (Chipper, Semi-Chisel, Chisel, Guard Link). Over the course of production they changed some of the part numbers and made subtle changes to the design of the plates; I am trying to keep a full compliment on hand. There were even a few "private labels" as I have at least two different versions that were stamped with the McCulloch name.
Mark
SawTroll
Information Collector
I noticed those "A and B" slots in your pictures, but didn't know what they were about - there obviously has been some product development since I got the ones I have (got them from you
, no-one I know of sell any Carlton stuff over here).I had a Husqvarna roller guide in hand today, ready to purchase. The farm store salesman asked and I told him what I was doing. He talked me out of it saying it wouldn't work. I told him I thought it would with a little modification. That's when he condescendingly looked me from head to toe. I wanted to just walk it to the counter....but was a little steamed....and he sat a doubt in my head.
I'd rather not waste the $18 if they're easy to screw up. Sounds like modifying one to fit a Stihl RS chain shouldn't be too difficult or rocket science though, correct?
I'd rather not waste the $18 if they're easy to screw up. Sounds like modifying one to fit a Stihl RS chain shouldn't be too difficult or rocket science though, correct?
SawTroll
Information Collector
No, not at all - just remember to use a 13/64" file when testing, and take a little at a time - the needed adjustments are small. If you use 7/32" files, you will have to deepen the slots a little more, and imo it isn't a good choice for Stihl 3/8" chain anyway, even though it works.
Start with widening the slots so they fit over the somewhat wider Stihl chain (if needed, it was when I did it). Then test how high the file ends up relative to the cutting edge, and deepen the forward slots if needed (again, it was when I did it). Do the testing with a chain that is almost new, but has been filed at least once before, to "normalize" it.
You do of course need files that fits into the slots - don't try to use any sort of grinder.
18 USD isn't much money, relative to the cost of chains, or other guides.
Even cheaper ($11 - $13) at Bailey's, if you don't need the kit with the files and handle.
Philbert
Philbert
