ArboristSite.com Sponsors
 
 


Depth of face cut

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by LogSawyer74, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. LogSawyer74

    LogSawyer74 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    Eastern OK
    Hello gents, curious about everyone's opinion on this. I've been cutting on a buddy's land where he sold an easement to a power company along the fence line of his 40 acre property. It's pasture/hay ground, but the fence row is covered up in post oak and hickory about 35-40 feet wide along the fence. Most of it is about 10-14" diameter. The power company will be dozing the fence row pretty quickly, so I've been cutting as much as I can before it gets pushed over. Most all the trees are leaning slightly toward the barb wire for some reason, so I've been falling them against the lean using wedges. On two or three I had to use a steel splitting wedge to get enough lift to push them over (I know that's a big no-no, but I put on my sunglasses/eye protection). I've had really good luck, haven't had one go the wrong way yet. Of course there's been a few that I didn't try because the lean was too great. I've noticed that if I use a little deeper face cut, it doesn't take as much lift to get them to go past the point of balance and fall the way I want them too. I guess it moves the hinge point closer to the center of the tree. On some, I've made my face cut almost half way thru the tree to make sure I have enough lift (stack wedges) to get it over. I would never try this on a tree bigger than 14-16" or so. I'm always watching for a barber chair, but I wanted to get everyone's opinion. Is this safe? Anyone had any problems doing something similar? Is it dangerous to use a face cut deeper than a quarter or third of the tree? Thanks for any input
     
  2. HuskStihl

    HuskStihl Chairin'em for the sound

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Messages:
    6,163
    Likes Received:
    10,797
    Location:
    Hockley, TX
    On a back-leaner you ideally don't want a deep face in order to allow more hinge to support the necessary wedging. Your method will be fine until you break a hinge and it goes over backwards. You might try making the back cut first, get a wedge in, put in a 1/3rd depth open face, then keep driving the wedge/sawing the back cut until things go u'r way
     
    Brushwacker, SteveSS, mesupra and 4 others like this.
  3. zogger

    zogger Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    16,456
    Likes Received:
    11,136
    Location:
    North Georgia
    I...don't...know, but want to find out as well. I've done some back leaners like that, with one spectacular and dangerous failure. All the rest were OK, but first bigger one I tried, epic fail, couldn't get enough lift.
     
    nk14zp, Philbert, mainewoods and 3 others like this.
  4. LogSawyer74

    LogSawyer74 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    Eastern OK
    I actually tried that on one tree, but these trees are small enough that once I get a wedge in the back cut, I didn't have room to get my bar back in when I needed to narrow the hinge a bit. I've thought about taking a small wedge and cutting 2-3 inches off the tip with a hacksaw to give myself more room on these small trees....
     
  5. LogSawyer74

    LogSawyer74 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    Eastern OK
    Can you elaborate on the spectacular and dangerous parts? Just curious
     
    ReggieT and unclemoustache like this.
  6. Whitespider

    Whitespider Lost in the 50s

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    19,647
    Likes Received:
    23,610
    Location:
    On the Cedar in Northeast Iowa
    I "pull" back-leaners with a vehicle, winch or come-a-long... usually with a dead-head pulley so I can control the "pull equipment" from close to where I'm doin' the cuttin'.
    *
     
  7. svk

    svk A little bit of everything

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,729
    Likes Received:
    56,009
    Location:
    MN
    Was that the big c-wood that went in the pond?
     
  8. zogger

    zogger Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    16,456
    Likes Received:
    11,136
    Location:
    North Georgia
    Tulip poplar, yep. Was some pretty good jackie chan moves there for a second.

    Tree goes CREAAAAKKKK zogger goes EEEK! step, step (braine goes...rats, too slow..), big ole jump and roll!

    At least I had an escape path scoped out in advance. Gravity works fast!

    Top third or so is still soak curing in the pond..... ;)
     
    MountainHigh, Fubar, wudpirat and 7 others like this.
  9. zogger

    zogger Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    16,456
    Likes Received:
    11,136
    Location:
    North Georgia
    I posted about it before, not ashamed to post epic fails..had a nice tulip polar, but leaning towards a pond. whereas the other direction, once felled, I could back right up to it, easy score..so I am gonna face cut it, and then wedge it over. Almost got it, but not quite, it fell the way it wanted to go anyway.

    It was rather..exciting...

    Any number of wrong-o moves. First, shoulda just let it go the way it wanted and drug it out with some equipment and chains. Made the face cut wrong (that part not sure of, too shallow, not deep enough??). Underestimated the amount of force needed sledging the wedges in to move a big heavy tree. I needed more grunt than I had/have I guess. Stuff like that.

    There was nothing the other direction to attach to close by to hook up a comealong, and don't have enough longer stronger whatevers, chain/rope, etc that I would have trusted. So, I wanted to try and wedge it. I had four wedges in it and it still went the direction of the lean.
     
  10. svk

    svk A little bit of everything

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,729
    Likes Received:
    56,009
    Location:
    MN
    Jackie Chan with a beard!! I can picture it happening. ;)
     
    Fubar, hseII, Jetterbug and 2 others like this.
  11. mainewoods

    mainewoods Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    2,938
    Likes Received:
    5,984
    Location:
    Western Maine

    Yup, a little mechanical persuasion ( come-a-long,winch or vehicle)works wonders on back leaners. A snatch block really helps for offset pulling, to keep you clear of the drop zone.
     
    MountainHigh, Fubar, wudpirat and 2 others like this.
  12. LogSawyer74

    LogSawyer74 ArboristSite Operative

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    Eastern OK
    Thanks. sounds like I would have done it the exact same way. I guess you win some and lose some. Just trying to educamate myself hoping to prevent taking down the barb wire fence and letting all the cows out....
     
  13. svk

    svk A little bit of everything

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,729
    Likes Received:
    56,009
    Location:
    MN
    An experienced wedge feller can do magic. Although I prefer to use a chain hoist to ensure there are no whoopsies.
     
  14. zogger

    zogger Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    16,456
    Likes Received:
    11,136
    Location:
    North Georgia
    Oh, no doubt at all. Technically, I am "more" experienced now. There's a weight and angle threshold I now know I can't do with what tools and grunt I have, so go to plan b on those, if/when the situation comes up again.
     
    svk likes this.
  15. rwoods

    rwoods Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    6,011
    Likes Received:
    6,329
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Be careful with those steel wedges, sometimes they get spit out rather easily and quickly - then all that extra "lift" just adds momentum to the tree which is now moving in the wrong direction. Ron
     
    MountainHigh, Hedgerow, hseII and 4 others like this.
  16. slowp

    slowp Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    14,800
    Likes Received:
    5,300
    Location:
    SW Warshington
    Cody, a seasoned, excellent faller can do magic. And get some plastic falling wedges, you'll eventually nick a wedge with your saw.



    Also, there's only so much you can do with any kind of lean, and fences, pickups, houses, etc. have tractor beams.
     
  17. treeslayer2003

    treeslayer2003 Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    5,709
    Likes Received:
    4,328
    Location:
    Marylands eastern shore
    depth of face is relative.........there is nothing wrong with a 50% face under the right circumstances. little wood is hard to turn, just don't have alot of meat to work with, i can do much more with 30"+ timber.
    sounds like your not doing to bad, leaving the ones your unsure of is smart.
    by the way, deep and steep faces do not cause a barber chair, not matching cuts in the face does. be care full on the hickory, it don't like real wide hinges.
     
    Hedgerow, nk14zp, LogSawyer74 and 3 others like this.
  18. Woody912

    Woody912 ArboristSite Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    913
    Likes Received:
    602
    Location:
    Crawfordsville, IN
    Me too. I also put in a high back cut and then try to ease the tree past TDC while I still have plenty of hinge. Helps to have a buddy in the truck
     
    LogSawyer74 likes this.
  19. mdavlee

    mdavlee Tree Freak

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    18,128
    Likes Received:
    13,510
    Location:
    tn
    Bore straight through the hinge from the back where the wedge will be. It can give you room if the wedge is bottoming out on the hinge. I hate smaller trees like that. No room to work for the most part. The back cut first works pretty good on them.
     
    Hedgerow, nk14zp, Chris-PA and 9 others like this.
  20. woodchuck357

    woodchuck357 Addicted to ArboristSite

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,262
    Likes Received:
    519
    Location:
    arkansas
    Deeper notches do move the center of gravity and will increase the amount of top movement a given wedge will provide. Try laying them down closer to parallel with the fence, it is easier to get a tree to fall sideways to the lean than directly against the lean. Rope pull is much more reliable than wedges, especially with smaller trees.
    Just be sure to use a long enough rope so you don't wind up under the tree.
     
    wudpirat, Chris-PA, zogger and 2 others like this.

Share This Page