Nik's Poulan Thread

[fossil]

Yes it is interesting seeing the Emab lable but that just means the company that built it if you want to get techincal. This would be thet first time I had heard of the 3400-4000 series saws being built at that plant. Not sure why they would tool up to do it there while they already were at the Markham plant as well as the US plant. Like I said I'm not 100% sure they didnt but would be surprised if they did.

I know the 4000 was discontinued in 1988 and the Poulan pro versions started in 1988- early nineties I would reckon.

As for the big P series Pioneers at the EMAB plant, I'm not sure either, we know the Poulan Pro versions like the 655 were built at that plant, and they started in 1988. I'm thinkin that there may have been some of the Pioneers built there as as well, like maybe the last of the Pioneer/Partner branded ones like the P-62 and P-65.

What I really want to know though is what was actually going on in the Peterbrough plant between 1984 and 1988, the Pioneer/Partner years. If it really was used for warehousing like I have been lead to believe then that just about assures that the big P series would have all had to be built at EMAB Huron Park.

During that era import duties into Canada were pretty stiff. Tey used to run between 23 and 28% of purchase (wholesale) price.
If companies brought compnents into Canada and assembled them here the duty on the parts wqas betwee 10 & 13%
I suspect very little tooling was generated to use for thse saws in Canada unless the freight and lack of duty on larger parts made a good return on investment. Sometimes the "second set" or back up tooling would end up here.

I think that's why we have those made in Canada 3400 series. I have a red 77 cc saw that went by a model not sold in the US that was assembled here in Canada around the same time for what I suspect is the same reason. A lot of plants popped up here during that period because of duty incentives.

As far as the Peterborough plant goes, there must be a Pioneer guy on here somewhere who either worked there or had family that did. Maybe they could shed some light on it.
Anyway, that's all gone now so we all just by Chinese excrement instead.

 

[fossil]

I was aware about the 3400-4000 saws.Well to be honest i didn't notice any difference in the way the pin inserts in the piston between the 4200,the 306A and the 2775.What i am trying to say is that on my 4200 was really easy,i was almost able to push the pin by hand,that's why i wonder about the torch.Anyway,Poulan knows better.I am really glad you found the parts to fix your 5200.

Kostas,

I think that the 4200 is loosening up to a dangerous degree because they were not meant to work in European Union countries. If you send it to me I will make sure it is reconditioned to North American atmospheric pressures, altitude, trees, etc. and then I will send it back when all the trees are gone.
You can thank me later.

 

[thomas1]

Thomas, thats a dandy! You need to go out and cut a half a day with it and then tell us what you think, there one of the most user friendly firewood saws around. I think you will like it.

What are your thoughts on 3500 vs. 3450?

 

[barneyrb]

Got up the mustard to try to install my new piston on my new to me crank. Mark requested that I try take some pics. First off, I noticed that the new pin is shorter than the old one. The grooves for the keeper clips are set back farther on the new piston. I cur a piece of 1/2" steel rod to use as an alignment tool.

The rod measured exactly 1/2", the piston pin is about .15" larger dia. So it slipped through, like it was made for the job. Was a piece of cake actually, to get the thrust washers, bearing, and all to line up with the "tool". I inserted the wrist pin in one end, and kinda applied pressure with a block of wood.

At first I didn't think I would have success, but once the piston heated up enough, with the propane torch, I was holding in my left hand, it slid right on. Even pushing my home made "tool" right out the other side. Slicker than snot. I couldn't install a clip on the back side first, as per instructions in the manual. These new clips are shaped different. Kinda like a G. Preventing a tool to pass through. So I added both keeper clips after I got the pin in, and centered.

Here is a pic of the two pins. Old one much longer.

Here is a pic of the "tool" going though and holding everything in place.

Here is a pic starting the wrist pin in.

This pic, you can see how far back the clip groove is.

And a final pic of the whole shebang together, and waiting to be put back in the case.

Over all, these aren't to bad. I can't imagine what trouble I would have trying this, with it still in the crank case. I prefer doing a 4000. LOL

Gregg,

Nice job there Gregg, but is it on backwards? Doesn't the larger scallop in the side of the piston go towards the back?


:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[dboyd351]

Anyway, that's all gone now so we all just by Chinese excrement instead.

Except for those of us who actively seek out, buy and refurbish old school iron - like those on this thread. Long live the original form of recycling - fix up the old, good stuff, instead of buying new junk!

 

[fastLeo151]

What are your thoughts on 3500 vs. 3450?

It depends what 3450 your comparing it to the 54 or 60cc version. My 365 will barely out cut a 54cc 330. I just acquired 3-3500s and I have not had the time to dig into them yet. After seeing how nice yours is I am motivated to get into mine. I also got some HD164 carbs to try on this style to see what kinda gains it will offer.....

Andy

 

[OhioGregg]

Nice job there Gregg, but is it on backwards? Doesn't the larger scallop in the side of the piston go towards the back?


:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Randy, I hope its on right! The ring locating pins are to the rear (intake side). I think it must be an optical illusion in the pics. Now you got me worried..LOL Gonna go out and look at it. take a few more pics.


Gregg,

 

[OhioGregg]

Randy, I think whats adding to the confusion, is this piston is different in several ways. The openings on both sides are the same. No different fro front to rear. This new piston has thicker rings than the original also. The locating pin on the original is on the flywheel side, directly above the wrist pin hole. This new one is located directly in back, to the intake side, which on these saws have no intake port in the cyl. as you know. Odd to me why it was changed. Hope it works.:msp_ohmy:

Here is a pic from the side, old to the left.

Another, from the back side.

Gregg,

 

[barneyrb]

Randy, I think whats adding to the confusion, is this piston is different in several ways. The openings on both sides are the same. No different fro front to rear. This new piston has thicker rings than the original also. The locating pin on the original is on the flywheel side, directly above the wrist pin hole. This new one is located directly in back, to the intake side, which on these saws have no intake port in the cyl. as you know. Odd to me why it was changed. Hope it works.:msp_ohmy:

Here is a pic from the side, old to the left.

Another, from the back side.

Gregg,

I apologize Gregg, I was just jerking your chain.......Sorry.......

 

[OhioGregg]

I apologize Gregg, I was just jerking your chain.......Sorry.......

I have had my chain jerked before Randy! No apologies needed. LOL I know I checked about 6 times when I was putting it together, I would position it differently to get a better working angle, then ck again to make sure it was right. Was afraid I would battle with it for an hour, then get in in and find out it was on backwards. Done stuff like that before.:msp_ohmy:


Gregg,

 

[fossil]

very interesting, it would seem that the new piston closes off the transfer ports much earlier....and in a symmetrical manner rather than the asymmetrical layout of the old piston.....:msp_mellow:
Also old piston has much wider port opening in the skirt...hmmmmm
If it was mine I think I would be matching the profile of the old skirt....
I think you will loose a lot of power with the new piston......if not modified.
The asymmetrical layout will help clear the cylinder by pressurizing the rear of the combustion chamber last helping to flush it out the exhaust port....just my take on it. Surprised nobody else has mentioned it.

Even more interesting is the ring size, almost looks like it belongs in a cast iron cylinder like might be found in a similar sized dirt bike.

Are there any markings on the piston that indicate its origin?

so many questions...so few answers....sorry, being a mechanical designer for 45 years makes me wonder about things....I always want to figure out ...."why"...

I recognize that piston. It's out of a Chevy Vega. Oh Man Gregg!!!

 

[OhioGregg]

very interesting, it would seem that the new piston closes off the transfer ports much earlier....and in a symmetrical manner rather than the asymmetrical layout of the old piston.....:msp_mellow:
Also old piston has much wider port opening in the skirt...hmmmmm
If it was mine I think I would be matching the profile of the old skirt....
I think you will loose a lot of power with the new piston......if not modified.
The asymmetrical layout will help clear the cylinder by pressurizing the rear of the combustion chamber last helping to flush it out the exhaust port....just my take on it. Surprised nobody else has mentioned it.

Even more interesting is the ring size, almost looks like it belongs in a cast iron cylinder like might be found in a similar sized dirt bike.

Are there any markings on the piston that indicate its origin?

so many questions...so few answers....sorry, being a mechanical designer for 45 years makes me wonder about things....I always want to figure out ...."why"...

Stephen, I don't have a clue about any of that! I'm not an engineer or saw porter. I just put fuel in em, and hope they go!
As far as any markings...Only one I can find is a 4. on top of the piston, close to where there usually is an arrow.


Gregg,

 

[OhioGregg]

I recognize that piston. It's out of a Chevy Vega. Oh Man Gregg!!!

A Chevy Vega!!! Now you got me worried for sure.:msp_scared:


Gregg,

 

[OhioGregg]

me neither, that is why I mentioned it. I was hoping that a smarter guy than me could jump in and say...oh yes...that is the new improved design. It just doesn't make any sense to me, but then again there are many things that I don't understand.:msp_mellow::msp_mellow:

I did run 2 stroke dirt bikes for many years and we always matched the pistons to the porting, it seemed to be the logical thing to do. Is there nothing on the bottom side of the piston?

NOPE, just the 4 on top, as I mentioned.

Gregg,

 

[Wagnerwerks]

If the new jug is the same, I'd be making up a template from the old piston and grinding away on that puppy...... After I put it together the way it came and it wasn't working properly.

 

[fossil]

Vega's got a bad rap....if you changed the head gaskets every 15,000 miles they would run forever....:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
Same chrome piston/aluminum cylinder Poulan used....but Poulan didn't have a head gasket to leak and wash the lube off the cylinder wall..:hmm3grin2orange:

The engines lasted OK up here because the road salt demolished the car in 2 years. You could hear them rust almost as fast as a Ford

 

[Modifiedmark]

Randy, I think whats adding to the confusion, is this piston is different in several ways. The openings on both sides are the same. No different fro front to rear. This new piston has thicker rings than the original also. The locating pin on the original is on the flywheel side, directly above the wrist pin hole. This new one is located directly in back, to the intake side, which on these saws have no intake port in the cyl. as you know. Odd to me why it was changed. Hope it works.:msp_ohmy:

Here is a pic from the side, old to the left.

Another, from the back side.

Gregg,

Gregg, you got a picture of that box that the P/C came in and does it have a Poulan part # on it. You know Poulan never sold that as a set afaik. You know that 4200+ that we brought over last year to the GTG? That had a Sunbelt (I think) rebuilt P/C on it that was .030 oversize, remember us talking about that? It also had a piston with both locating pins in a row like that one you have. The only other one I seen like that one.

Measure that bore on that piston will you please? It looks biggger then the original

No worries though, you remembe how Chris's saw ran and how it only took Nik about 5 seconds in the cut to cry, "hell no this aint no 4200" :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Modifiedmark]

but still....with the ports masked off by the piston skirts...hmmmm if you look at the cylinder that came with that piston it is pretty obvious that they are not even close to a match. Making them match will greatly improve the results. I bet if you slip the old piston into the new cylinder and look at the port match the light bulb will come on.....lots more power available...

Maybe all I know is that the one I'm talking about is a running SOB...

 

[Modifiedmark]

Ok, I got the 8500 done tonight. No time to start it yet though. I started a new thread here http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/218252.htm#post4023865

But here are a few more pictures of it going together.

 

[Wagnerwerks]

Sweet.