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Saws and starting to climb

Discussion in 'Arborist 101' started by kcurbanloggers, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. kcurbanloggers

    kcurbanloggers ArboristSite Member

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    Hi guys,
    A few years ago I opened a tree service business, after spending a few years clearing land and working with the Forrest service before that. Here in rural Kansas, you often don’t have to worry about climbing for removals, but I am now starting to expand north into more residential areas. There, climbing is essential. I have studied and read about climbing as much as I can and feel pretty confident on paper which brings me two my questions. First, I need to purchase a small saw for work in the canopy. A top handle saw is not really in the budget, so what small rear handle saws in the 30-35cc range do you recommend. Right now I am partial to stihl, but I’ve heard their small saws aren’t always the best. Second, I am open to any pointers or tips regarding rigging and climbing — what do you wish you knew when you were starting out?
    Thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. northmanlogging

    northmanlogging The gyppo's gyppo

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    Rear handle saws just plain suck for anything except topping or chunking bigger pieces, limbing etc your going to be much happier and safer with a top handle saw while climbing

    Learn some proper knots, learn them so you can tie them without thinking about it and identify when they are wrong, Bowline, Square, clove hitch, alpenstahl, few others

    Don't mess with used ropes or rigging, shock loads are bad mmmkay.

    From there I strongly suggest you find someone to get you hands on training in a tree, reading about it here is as useful as reading about it in a book, or watching videos. Taint nothing like the real thing.

    As for actual climbing I'm partial to flip line and spurs, but I'm not even pretending to be an arborist, i just kill trees, if you wan't tree surgeon type work then you need to access the canopy without scarring up the tree with spurs, and that means double rope technique or single rope technique, both have pros and cons, and there is plenty spread all over addressing both, but both take a minimum of gear.

    Proper arborist type saddle. (a rock climbing saddle will keep you from dying, but they are not meant to be sat in, like an arborist saddle is) also this is different than a fall arrest harness, which is mean't simply to save your bacon if you fall. knowing the differences is important.

    climbing rated rope, not the hardware store garbage, but actual rated rope.

    and hand full of caribiners

    and some way to attach yourself to said ropes, be it a prusick loop with a hitch of some sort tied or some form of mechanical ascender/descender

    Though a blakes hitch on a double rope system is likely the simplest and cheapest way in, its down sides become noticeable quickly.
     
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  3. Brian55

    Brian55 ArboristSite Lurker

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    Pick up a modded MS660. You can use it both in the tree and on the ground, no need for a second or third saw...:rolleyes:
     
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  4. ATH

    ATH Addicted to ArboristSite

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    See what you can find used. I have had good luck with the one used saw I bought years ago. If you can find a 200T that isn't beat up and a shop went through it you'll be in great shape.

    You just doing removals?

    Low and slow. And don't be afraid to walk away from jobs you aren't comfortable doing and/or can't do without a well-trained ground guy.

    Tips on rigging: I'm no expert, but take as small of chunks as you possibly can. Don't watch videos of guys taking big chunks and try to replicate that. There are 2 types of those out there and sometimes it can be hard to spot the nuanced differences - especially without a lot of experience. The 2 kinds taking big chunks: the ones who REALLY know what they are doing and have really good groundie running the ropes. and the ones who have no idea how often they are as lucky as they are. Take small pieces. Let them run.
     
  5. BC WetCoast

    BC WetCoast Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Small pieces, small damage
     
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  6. Brian72

    Brian72 ArboristSite Guru

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    I recently got an Echo 355t. Very good saw and reasonably priced. For being in the tree, a top handle sure is the ticket.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Icedogs28

    Icedogs28 ArboristSite Operative

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    Like others said, if your climbing, definitely want a top handle. Not sure what your budget is, but I bought a stihl 193t for $320 brand new .I think it's the best value around
     
  8. Knobby57

    Knobby57 Peeing outdoors

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    Top handle for sure . Stihl 200t still has my love . I would take a 150 over a 193 . They are nothing close to the 200 or 201 but work ok . Used climbing line is only good for holding down hay bails on your truck or a cloths line . Don’t trust used rope that you are not personally involved in it’s compleat history !!!! Ever !!!! Always inspect your gear after and before use . I spend a good 15 -20 mins going over my saddle fir the most part and other gear every time it gets used . Take care of your gear and it will keep you alive . Always be on your toes . If you are tired or groggy don’t be farting around in a tree . Best advice is hire a climber that been around a while with a good rep . Learn from him . You will learn more in a day over what you could learn in a year reading and YouTube
     
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  9. kcurbanloggers

    kcurbanloggers ArboristSite Member

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    What are the differences between the t200 and t193? I wasn’t planning on skimping out on gear... I’m buying all new.
     
  10. Icedogs28

    Icedogs28 ArboristSite Operative

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    $350:laugh:
    The MS201 has .6 more horsepower, but is 1 pound heavier. I prefer a lighter saw in while in the tree. I have used both and have no complaints on the ms193 power. It has plenty of power for anything you will encounter while up in a tree. To me, the ms201 is not worth double the cost of the 193
     
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  11. derwoodii

    derwoodii Tree Freak

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    interesting as i differ to most here as prefer light & $cheap rear handle saws in a trees eg 017 019/rear handle model.. odd yes but i really care less for top handle saws they're unbalanced & bite left hands all the time ..
    If you leaning to climb dismantle & rig best go work for a crew free or paid watch learn you really cant pick it all up from books and videos..

    Oh if can wait a while save your $ bucks look at new battery saws range as great stuff & even a pole saw will sort so many low limb task without getting you feet off the ground
     
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  12. kcurbanloggers

    kcurbanloggers ArboristSite Member

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    I have a guy willing to teach me. He hasn’t been in the tree business for quite some time. But he spent 20 some odd years in the canopies in yellow stone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Luckysaturn

    Luckysaturn ArboristSite Member

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    This. I have one n love it they also have two lower models that cost less go to echos webpage. They run 20% off days once a year at all dealers.... I'm across the river in KC MO nice to see someone close!
     
  14. bayard

    bayard ArboristSite Guru

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    a used ms192 or 193, will work fine to start.
     
  15. dschroeder

    dschroeder ArboristSite Operative

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    Is that all echo saws 20% off? I may have to pickup a new saw at some point. Currently running a 355T and love it, just need a bigger ground saw
     
  16. Bashby91

    Bashby91 ArboristSite Lurker

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    A few things. I've had every climbing say that is on the shelf today and personally echo is my favorite. Now they came out with the new 2511 I just bought but idk how it is yet I will let you guys know soon! The 355t is hands down the best. Ok I get the climbing saw is not in the budget but let a big saw is not the answer. If you got to open a credit line with your local shop.. next if you are new to it find a guy that has climbing experence. Idk what your rate is for a climber up their is but around here it's 250-350 A DAY. And learn ask questions don't just go into something close to a house. Wait till you get stuff in an open field and even though you can just drop it. Climb it. Rig it and get comfortable with it. Best of luck
     
  17. Brian72

    Brian72 ArboristSite Guru

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    Yes. They run the special once a year. You may find more info on their website or check your local dealer.

    Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
     
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  18. ropensaddle

    ropensaddle Feel Lucky

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    I tell you what I use my hand saw a lot samurai but Id say a top handle echo would work assuming you have a ground saw.
     
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  19. Luckysaturn

    Luckysaturn ArboristSite Member

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    Yes all power equipment blowers wackers saws and such
     
  20. pankaj patil

    pankaj patil New Member

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