Tie in point- how small is too small?

[Bryan Scoresby]

Good afternoon, fairly new here, I climbed cell phone towers for two years, moved, and when I heard how much people paid for tree removal I said what the heck and started a tree service. I did arbormasters climb school and it was good, but I would like to have a discussion of tie in points. How small is too small, what seems sketchy to you, that kind of thing. I feel like the only way to know for sure something is too small is to fall on it and have it break- but I kind of figure you only get to do that once- so I don’t climb unless I’m 110% sure my tie in can handle a fall. Obviously species matters- which brings me to cottonwood trees. 80% of what I climb here is cottonwood or Siberian elm. I am comfortable climbing cherry, oak, honey locust- these all have very strong wood, and I haven’t had to go out on a limb- figuratively. But cottonwood is so weak. Where I really get nervous is when I’m taking the top out of a cottonwood and have to rig to the same spot I’m tied into. I have attached a pic of a recent tie in- this is the smallest cottonwood tie in I have climbed on. The tree appears to be in decent shape, no dead branches bigger than my thumb on the climb up, it does lean a little, but hanging from here (50’ up or so) I’m only 2.5 feet out at the base. I included a carabiner for size reference. I can wrap one hand half way around the smaller branch in the fork, and under the fork is a bit larger than my thigh. Looking for thoughts from someone with more experience than me.

 

[Shaner418]

Good afternoon, fairly new here, I climbed cell phone towers for two years, moved, and when I heard how much people paid for tree removal I said what the heck and started a tree service. I did arbormasters climb school and it was good, but I would like to have a discussion of tie in points. How small is too small, what seems sketchy to you, that kind of thing. I feel like the only way to know for sure something is too small is to fall on it and have it break- but I kind of figure you only get to do that once- so I don’t climb unless I’m 110% sure my tie in can handle a fall. Obviously species matters- which brings me to cottonwood trees. 80% of what I climb here is cottonwood or Siberian elm. I am comfortable climbing cherry, oak, honey locust- these all have very strong wood, and I haven’t had to go out on a limb- figuratively. But cottonwood is so weak. Where I really get nervous is when I’m taking the top out of a cottonwood and have to rig to the same spot I’m tied into. I have attached a pic of a recent tie in- this is the smallest cottonwood tie in I have climbed on. The tree appears to be in decent shape, no dead branches bigger than my thumb on the climb up, it does lean a little, but hanging from here (50’ up or so) I’m only 2.5 feet out at the base. I included a carabiner for size reference. I can wrap one hand half way around the smaller branch in the fork, and under the fork is a bit larger than my thigh. Looking for thoughts from someone with more experience than me.

I climb a ton of black cottonwood trees in my area. Super brittle wood but also can be surprisingly strong. I have yet to fully understand this, so when working with that species, I lean towards my TIP being around the main stem and not a branch. Using a false crotch can help facilitate a secure connection to the stem.

 

[pdqdl]

Super brittle wood but also can be surprisingly strong. I have yet to fully understand this, so when working with that species,

Yep. That is my experience & thoughts as well.

I don't feel uncomfortable about my tie-in points, but those trees are kinda scary to cut up. There you are planning on swinging a branch just a little sideways with the hinge wood... POP! Those damn cottonwoods just snap off the tree and fall straight down. I've never figured it out, but the wood fibers just don't seem to hold as well.

Nonetheless, if you look around town in Kansas City, we are practically infested with huge, tall cottonwoods. The regular ice storms don't seem to harm them much, despite the tons of extra weight they add to all the branches. I have concluded that they are plenty strong until you disturb the integrity of the branch with your saw. Then just count on not needing (or having) a hinge, 'cause that branch is going straight down unless roped in a different direction.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Yeah, cottonwoods grow so fast, their strength is mostly in the outer cambium layer... once you compromise that they really tend to snap.