Seasonal Erosion Control

[2dogs]

The rolling dips in our soil types have to be 60 to 100 feet or more in length to be effective and last more than one winter. And they need to be armored. The armoring we will do but that length just isn't practical. The USFS guys and gals are great but are from out of the area and just aren't budgeted to spend the time needed to learn the soil types. Heck, they (two teams) have something like 200 miles of just perimeter fire line and another 200 miles of other dozer lines to asses. Maybe even more. They very limited time and resources for any one land owner, and we have barely spoken to NRCS. Fortunately we have insurance but still I have over 500 acres to manage.

We have a stream crossing where two 24" culverts are in place now but need to be replaced with a 64" culvert. It is right on the property line with the Forest. (I learned the term NFS recently BTW). It is likely a $50,000.00 job. The BAER team wants us to pay for it then they will reimburse us. That is a lot of money to spend on a job where 15 people will decide on whether to pay us AFTER the culvert is in place.

 

[slowp]

I'd take some pictures but the road is closed. We've got a couple roads with rolling dips armored with concrete. They've survived some flood years and are put where creek crossings are. There is still a culvert, with a protected intake but the dips are there for when the culvert plugs up or if there is too much water for the pipe. Rolling dips don't work on steep grades. Water has too much velocity and splashes right over them. On the Oregon coast, it is common to put in a drivable waterbar below a culvert for that worst case scenario.

That's scary. I have heard horror stories about contractors waiting and waiting to get paid.

 

[slowp]

Oh, and the reason for skewing (sounds Swedish as in Skeewwer dur turkey) is to keep the water speed kind of quick enough so the sediment goes over the side of the road and doesn't fill up the waterbar.

This topic isn't very glamorous but I have always liked playing with water.

 

[northmanlogging]

As for the pot cream... just get some dankies or brownies and have a good evening... the cream is hit or miss so I've heard.

There are a couple of the armored creek crossings out this way, big concrete things with big steel grates in em, been up there for 20 years or so. Had us a real bad winter and washed out 3-4 of the big culverts, so they replaced them with the concrete jobs. Once in a while a land slide will block up the grate, and the water will run over the concrete bit, or once it ran around and washed out part of the road, but the concrete stayed put, so rebuilding was just a matter of a few loads of fill.

 

[2dogs]

I'd take some pictures but the road is closed. We've got a couple roads with rolling dips armored with concrete. They've survived some flood years and are put where creek crossings are. There is still a culvert, with a protected intake but the dips are there for when the culvert plugs up or if there is too much water for the pipe. Rolling dips don't work on steep grades. Water has too much velocity and splashes right over them. On the Oregon coast, it is common to put in a drivable waterbar below a culvert for that worst case scenario.

That's scary. I have heard horror stories about contractors waiting and waiting to get paid.

I did not state our culvert/dip arrangement clearly. Yes some rolling dips stand alone as do some culverts but for the most part the rolling dips are just downhill from the culverts and protect the road if a culvert is blocked or is over topped.

Today I spent my entire day cleaning up small debris flows, the biggest was less than 20 yards. (OK actually not my whole day. I got a flat tire 2 miles from my truck and had to walk in my Vikings. I think I just spun the tire on the rim. This backhoe is new to us and the tires are not water filled. It was a nice walk, all downhill).

 

[slowp]

Goats or sheep, and straw!

 

[2dogs]

Goats or sheep, and straw!

And BBQ sauce and beer. Where's the party?

 

[2dogs]

Patty I bought the USFS book you linked me to on Amazon. I spent an hour reading it last night, I'm on page 7. Lots of big words and numbers. I need to get the BAER catalog for it all to make sense. Thank you for the link.

 

[madhatte]

What is this book? You know I need more references on my shelf for future use.

 

[slowp]

What is this book? You know I need more references on my shelf for future use.

It is a many paged bible for Road Engineer types full of exciting reading about specifications for various items. The pages are thin and can be used for toilet paper in an emergency. It would also make a good sleep aid. Some contractors also carried it. Our version dared to be in, remain calm, metric units!

https://www.amazon.com/Forest-Servi...rest+Service+Road+Construction+specifications

I had a lot of pages tabbed for quick reference. The book was necessary for use while taking the dreaded Roads Test, which this dumb timber person squeaked by and passed on the first attempt. Luck was with me.

 

[madhatte]

Ah, thank you. Seems like a thing to have when arguing for road repairs whether I know what I'm talking about or not.

 

[slowp]

Ah, thank you. Seems like a thing to have when arguing for road repairs whether I know what I'm talking about or not.

You probably speak fluent metric which helps when reading this particular book.

I will confess to liking the metric system.

 

[madhatte]

I do speak and prefer metric. I've got 10 fingers and I know how to convert from them!

 

[slowp]

A typewritten paper on California waterbars and their effectiveness.
http://www.calfire.ca.gov/resource_mgt/downloads/notes/Note90.pdf

Mule races are detrimental to waterbars, also.

 

[2dogs]

Thanks p! (I love watching mules race BTW).

 

[2dogs]

We received some good news today. The Forest Service will replace the large culvert that is right on the property line. It is a 64" diameter X 60' long CMP that drains a ravine on the Forest (LPF) through our property. This one culvert is a $50,000.00 job! Hopefully this job will be completed in the next two weeks.

 

[slowp]

It shouldn't melt.

 

[2dogs]

Well the debris flows started today on our part of the Soberanes fire footprint. We had to clear the road in two locations, one about 2' deep where a 36" culvert plugged up. I'm going back tomorrow because the forester has a walk through planned. I'm leaving my truck at the end of the pavement and taking the backhoe in. Since we almost didn't make it out today that is a good thing. I have to be home to give out Halloween candy and put lights in the trees so someone else may have to clear any debris flows. I have a few pics I can post tomorrow.

Oh and a fourth culvert collapsed, one of the burned out plastic ones on the Forest's part of the road.