Goofy Filing, Round Filing or Grinding

[madhatte]

D'OH!

Of course. A picture, as always, is worth a thousand words. So, yeah, I guess I've been sort of ignoring that angle anyway, and it would be between -5 and +5 depending on my sloppiness. I guess that's what I get for focusing solely on the working corner.

Thanks! I owe you a beer!

 

[Gypo Logger]

D'OH!

Of course. A picture, as always, is worth a thousand words. So, yeah, I guess I've been sort of ignoring that angle anyway, and it would be between -5 and +5 depending on my sloppiness. I guess that's what I get for focusing solely on the working corner.

Thanks! I owe you a beer!

That's why I find it so hard to file with a sq.file I can't keep an accurate sideplate angle.
John

 

[madhatte]

Geeze, I guess I owe pics now. I'll try to get some good ones very soon. I have had very good luck with the Vallorbe and Viala flat chisel files; I think the triangle/hex type files might just do a better job, but they're much harder to control. I think my digital camera will do decent enough macro work to show what I'm up to, but will definitely not show the same detail as yours. Maybe it's time for an upgrade or something.

 

[redprospector]

So if I am understanding things with the goofy file the under the top plate angle will be the same as the sideplate angle, right? So all your angles are 40* including the top plate angle looking down on the cutter?
Thanks,
John

No, looking down on the cutter you want the top plate to be about a 20* to 25* angle. After you posted the pics I saw that I was not understanding what you were asking about the side plate angle (I think).
As long as it is 90* or leaning 2 or 3 degrees forward you're good. If that angle is leaning back it won't cut worth a ****.
That is one angle I don't think you have to worry too much about with a goofy, since the edge of the file is rounded you get a slight hook to the sideplate anyway.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Ok, I just dug out an old goofy file and filed a cutter. While I was doing it I learned that holding a file at the right angle's with one hand while taking a picture with the other is not easy.

This picture is about right for the angle's of the Goofy file.

This picture is how the cutter will look from the inside. The "hook" in the side plate means (to me) tha you don't have to worry about that angle too much. It can be brought closer to 90* for a more durable cutter.

Andy

 

[Gypo Logger]

Andy, it seems I have totaly confused Madhatte, you and myself.
We may be both talking sq. and goofy in the same post.

What I don't get with the goofy, is that If I try to hold a 2* forward sideplate angle, that means that the under the top plate angle will also be 2*, surely not enough to cut wood. Am I holding the file too low into the gullet? I don't get it.
John

 

[redprospector]

Andy, it seems I have totaly confused Madhatte, you and myself.
We may be both talking sq. and goofy in the same post.

What I don't get with the goofy, is that If I try to hold a 2* forward sideplate angle, that means that the under the top plate angle will also be 2*, surely not enough to cut wood. Am I holding the file too low into the gullet? I don't get it.
John

From what you're saying, I think you may be holding the file too low in the gullet.
Post a picture of that "dull as a hoe" cutter so maybe I can see better what you're doing. I promise, I'll be easy on ya.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

So if I am understanding things with the goofy file the under the top plate angle will be the same as the sideplate angle, right? So all your angles are 40* including the top plate angle looking down on the cutter?
Thanks,
John

John, I went back looking at this thread. I think you're right, we're all confused.
Look at the pictures I posted. The cutter shows where the top flat of the file is doing the cutting on the under side of the top plate. Where the top flat of the file, and the rounded edge of the file meet (I call the corner of the file) goes in the working corner of the cutter. That leaves only the rounded edge of the file cutting the side plate.
The cutter I filed has probably a 6 or 7* side plate, but that could be brought to the 2* you're trying for by rolling the file up a little steeper.
I don't know if I'm helping, or making things worse.

Andy

 

[mdavlee]

I was going to order some goofy files but now I'm confused too. Maybe I should just stick to the double bevel.

 

[redprospector]

I was going to order some goofy files but now I'm confused too. Maybe I should just stick to the double bevel.

If you're using a double bevel the goofy is no problem.
It's the same principals, and motions. Basicly all the same angles. The biggest difference is the edges of the files. The double bevel cuts a flat edge on the side plate, and the goofy cuts a hooked edge in the side plate, and that's one of the things that makes it more forgiving in my opinion. Also the goofy has a wider body that makes it a little easier to see the angles you're holding the file at.

Andy

 

[mdavlee]

Yeah I was thinking it might be a little easier for me. Seems it wouldn't be as hard to file back if you hit something in the wood.

 

[madhatte]

Your mileage may vary on that one. In my opinion, a nice sharp double bevel will restore a banged-up cutter more quickly and more accurately than the hooked corner a goofy file produces, and it's because as soon as I see the line, three or four strokes is all it takes to restore the corner. It takes me longer with a goofy file because the corner is less distinct.

Also, Red, you are holding that file at exactly the same attitude as I am, if not necessarily the same angle. Always use two hands when not also taking a picture!

 

[redprospector]

Your mileage may vary on that one. In my opinion, a nice sharp double bevel will restore a banged-up cutter more quickly and more accurately than the hooked corner a goofy file produces, and it's because as soon as I see the line, three or four strokes is all it takes to restore the corner. It takes me longer with a goofy file because the corner is less distinct.

Also, Red, you are holding that file at exactly the same attitude as I am, if not necessarily the same angle. Always use two hands when not also taking a picture!

Yeah, the angles aren't exactly right but I took 5 pictures trying to get it. That was just the closest one. I'm a one handed filer, my left hand is my "file guide".

Andy

 

[J.W Younger]

Yeah, the angles aren't exactly right but I took 5 pictures trying to get it. That was just the closest one. I'm a one handed filer, my left hand is my "file guide".

Andy

my left thumb is allways on the cutter i'm filing

 

[Gypo Logger]

When it comes to round filing , I'm 98% there with room for improvement. Goofy filing maybe 79% So I squared with the 6 angled file and maybe it cut a tad better, but round filed is hollow ground making it superior to any other hand filed chain for the woods I think.
John

 

[SWE#Kipp]

You who square file or want to try it should order this file Vallorbe LC 2271-8
it's double bevel file i have found them easiest to learn with of the double bevel files i have tried, much smoother then others do to the way it's cut straight across.
It really makes a big difference believe it or not ,,,,,

//Happy filing

 

[Gypo Logger]

John, I went back looking at this thread. I think you're right, we're all confused.
Look at the pictures I posted. The cutter shows where the top flat of the file is doing the cutting on the under side of the top plate. Where the top flat of the file, and the rounded edge of the file meet (I call the corner of the file) goes in the working corner of the cutter. That leaves only the rounded edge of the file cutting the side plate.
The cutter I filed has probably a 6 or 7* side plate, but that could be brought to the 2* you're trying for by rolling the file up a little steeper.
I don't know if I'm helping, or making things worse.

Andy

Knowing that now Andy I can't see that the goofy file could be any faster than a round file. Maybe it's just me.
Not sure, but I think one of the moderators here is a goofy filer.

If someone invented a simple small sq. grinder with ideal fixed angles and dressing diamonds they would be into the big bucks. Although it's the dressing stones that determine the angle.

Do you have a pic of the filing jig that holds a beveled file?
Thanks,
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

You who square file or want to try it should order this file Vallorbe LC 2271-8
it's double bevel file i have found them easiest to learn with of the double bevel files i have tried, much smoother then others do to the way it's cut straight across.
It really makes a big difference believe it or not ,,,,,

//Happy filing

The reason I can't sq. file is because I can't hold the proper sideplate angle.
I'm constantly correcting and second guessing myself. It's too frustrating for me.
Should I keep trying, even though my round filing cuts like a raped ape?

It take a pic of my goofy goofy goofy cutters, but I no longer have my 100mm
Nikon macro lens, just a 50mm lens.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

I was going to order some goofy files but now I'm confused too. Maybe I should just stick to the double bevel.

What I find hard to come to terms with about the goofy file, ( I wished it had a better name) is that if the GF leaves a round and high sideplate, it's no different than using 5/16" RF held high in the cutter, except for the fact that the under the top plate is filed flat with a GF as opposed to hollow as with an RF.
I'm starting to think that most saw users are not getting enough out of their chains regardless of what method they use.
Gypo

 

[mdavlee]

I can get my freehand filed round to outcut stock off the reel square most of the time. I don't know about stihl chain but on oregon I could. I finally broke down and bought one new RSK chain. It's supposed to clear chips better than the RSC so I thought I would try it.