The BIL Mill Upgrade

BobL said:

...What colour should I paint it?...

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...fire engine red of course!!!

Another excellent interesting post. So... those wheels won't get in the way when milling?

woodshop said:

...fire engine red of course!!!

Another excellent interesting post. So... those wheels won't get in the way when milling?

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Thanks WS, a good suggestion!

The wheels are designed to come off when milling. The bolts don't go thru the rails - the heads slide into the top of T-Track, two turns of the wing nuts and the wheels can slide off the rails.

I mainly added the wheels to make it easier to move the mill from my shed at the back of my house, to my van, a distance of about 50 yards down a narrow path. It also helps putting the mill into the van - ambulance style. Place the wheels on the back of the van and push the mill into the van.

At the milling yard, at the end of the day I add the wheels and wheel the mill over to the shed where I can reach with a compressor line and blow all the sawdust and gunk off the machine.

It sounds a bit awkward but it sure beats beats carrying it.

OK - decided the usual "volcano orange" would do.

BobL

Fantastic job! With respect to the magnetic bar support, I am terrified of leaving anything not bolted down near the running chain, especially with all the vibration as well. Before I had seen your solution to the bar sag, I had considered adding an adjustment screw outboard of the tip side bar support that could be screwed down to add force to the tip end of the bar, causing the middle part of the bar to rise. The bar is acting like a cantilevered beam, and force on the opposite side of the support could be adjusted to reduce the sag on different size bars. The weight of the power head may already be providing some of the balancing force which may be why you see the most sag at the tip end of your set up. This strategy does use up precious bar length, however.

The other idea was to add shims in the tip side bar support to make the clamping surface less 'parallel' to the bar, resulting in the same adjustment.

Your set up seems to apply the least amount of bending force to the bar which I think is very good, and you actually built yours... I just got 20,000 lbs (9000 kilos?) of gravel delivered yesterday for a garage slab project... milling the 28" maple log, and modifying the mill will have to wait.

BobL said:

...The wheels are designed to come off when milling. The bolts don't go thru the rails - the heads slide into the top of T-Track, two turns of the wing nuts and the wheels can slide off the rails...

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Well... that makes sense, was a dumb question now that I think about it.

I like how you seem to always take the time to finish stuff, like a nice paint job on a piece you make. When I make jigs for the shop, I'm usually too anxious to try it, tweak it and then put it into use. Thus even though at that point it looks like Fred Flintstone made it, I often fail to take that extra time right away to put a nice finish on the jig, sand or round over the edges etc. Only after I've gotten it dialed in and used it for a while and get tired of seeing it unfinished do I take the time to put the finishing touches on it.

glennschumann said:

... I just got 20,000 lbs (9000 kilos?) of gravel delivered yesterday for a garage slab project... milling the 28" maple log, and modifying the mill will have to wait.

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Too bad about that but I guess those sorts of jobs have to be done.

I understand what you mean about the cantilevered systems and that it uses up bar length. I think AggieWB uses straight tension on 60" bars and says it works well enough. Side tension never gets all the sag out anyway, I worked out I will need about 450 lb of side tension to reduce the sag by half (0.09 to 0.045"). I can't do that because I only have a single ally tube on the outboard side and it will just bend.

I tried out the magnetic clamp yesterday on the 42" bar. I was using a brand new regular (30º top plate) chain) - I thought this would make a good test because this type of chain produces major starting vibes compared to 10º top plate chain. Anyway, the 30º top plate produces a large degree of sideways vibe (grab) on the timber so the first few tenths of an inch contact with the log has the bar bouncing around like crazy.

Anyway - the clamp failed on the first attempt! Not the magnet - that was stuck fast, the vibes were just too much for the tightening force produced by the knurled brass knobs. So I added some locking wingnuts and it worked fine. I also tried it out on 10º top plate chain - wingnuts not needed there. I'd like to have a quicker way of releasing it so I'm looking at some sort of hinge arrangement.

woodshop said:

I like how you seem to always take the time to finish stuff, like a nice paint job on a piece you make. When I make jigs for the shop, I'm usually too anxious to try it, tweak it and then put it into use. Thus even though at that point it looks like Fred Flintstone made it, I often fail to take that extra time right away to put a nice finish on the jig, sand or round over the edges etc. Only after I've gotten it dialed in and used it for a while and get tired of seeing it unfinished do I take the time to put the finishing touches on it.

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I'm the opposite, but it also has it's downfalls. I want to get it as finished as quickly as possible and sometimes don't do enough testing. For example, one of the neat things about having the BIL mill on the sack trolley was that with the rails overhanging the ends the mill would "free stand upright" with the wheels being one set of contact points and the rails being the other set. This made it easier to move around as one could leave it standing upright while one opened a gate or a van door etc. The other good reason to stand it upright was to clean it using a compressor. The new jockey wheel arrangement I made does not allow for this so I have to place it on the ground or lean it up against something when doing these things.

I figured I need to weld some stubs on the wheel supports that it can stand upright on its own

This means ruining the new paint job! ARRGHHH@$@#! - I might bolt them on instead??

Turned out I didn't to do any welding and ruin my paint job.

Added some black poly pipe to the end of one of the handles


And here it is standing upright. Good for cleaning down with the compressor.

I haven't moved mine around much yet, but your idea certainly has a lot of merit, especially for a heavy steel beast like mine. I'm sure I have a couple of old billy cart wheels on an axle some where in the garden shed.

Dai Sensei said:

. . . . . I'm sure I have a couple of old billy cart wheels on an axle some where in the garden shed.

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Sounds Ideal!

BobL said:

This is no biggie even though it has taken me several evenings to sort out.

When stopping midway along a slab, eg to refuel, I can't just reach across the log to turn the aux oil off so I have to walk around the long.

This is because my aux oil talk is down low and the taps are underneath it like this.

With a longer bar the problem is only going to get get worse.

What often happens is the walk around the log to turn off the oiler becomes a PITA so I often just let it drip while I make a quick adjustment, then I forget it's on and I get distracted doing something else and before long half the aux oil tank has emptied itself onto the ground. Here is my solution.

Old bike gear change lever.

Connect cable to modified tap and spring mechanism.

Even though I have a needle valve installed for fine flow control the click gear lever also seems to provide reasonably reproducible flow control as well!

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Could it be possible to drill a small hole in the chainsaw inlet and fix a vacuum pipe onto it?

I don't know if its been brought up on here before (I did a search for the term "Scotoiler" but found no results) but theres an automatic chain oiling device used on motorcycles called a Scotoiler*, it uses vacuum from a pipe connected to the inlet rubbers to move a diaphragm which opens a valve, the valve is adjustable for flow (although I doubt it would flow enough instandard form for chainsaw.) and the valve allows oil to gravity feed onto the motorcycle chain.

The pipe thats connected to the inlet doesn't allow air to go into the engine as its other end has the diaphragm so it doesn't alter carburation.

Theres more information about them on THIS PDF and the general site is HERE.

Theres a version called the Touring Kit which has a resevoir that fits onto the end of the dispensing tube and the whole thing only allows oil to flow when the engines on.


They are pretty expensive when bought new but most mororcycle breakers over here have some that they have removed from dead motorcycles for a much cheaper price, the seals are compatable with chainsaw oil cos thats what I have used on my bike chain before.

Any use to you?
Admittedly, I've not even looked at the inlet stub of mine to see if a vacuum pipe could be fitted to it.

demographic said:

Could it be possible to drill a small hole in the chainsaw inlet and fix a vacuum pipe onto it?

I don't know if its been brought up on here before (I did a search for the term "Scotoiler" but found no results) but theres an automatic chain oiling device used on motorcycles called a Scotoiler*, it uses vacuum from a pipe connected to the inlet rubbers to move a diaphragm which opens a valve, the valve is adjustable for flow (although I doubt it would flow enough instandard form for chainsaw.) and the valve allows oil to gravity feed onto the motorcycle chain.

Any use to you?
Admittedly, I've not even looked at the inlet stub of mine to see if a vacuum pipe could be fitted to it.

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Excellent idea but it has a couple of things that need sorting.

One is that there are times such as when warming up and cooling down the saw, pausing to find wedges etc that the engine is running but one doesn't want the oil to flow.

The other is running a vacuum line from the power head across the mill rails to the oiler is not that easy since the height of the power head above the oiler changes with height of cut so one would have to building a flexible extension into the pipe. This has the potential to get caught up in things.

Another is peculiar to my mill whereby I can swap the chain out without removing the chain saw from the mill but it requires no other connection of any kind between the power head and the mill otherwise the chain cannot sneak past - this is very to difficult to explain without showing it to you. This could be gotten around with some sort of quick connect.

What I like is the principle of coupling oil flow to some aspect of engine operation - I'll be thinking about that for a while now. Thanks

BobL said:

Excellent idea but it has a couple of things that need sorting.

One is that there are times such as when warming up and cooling down the saw, pausing to find wedges etc that the engine is running but one doesn't want the oil to flow.

The other is running a vacuum line from the power head across the mill rails to the oiler is not that easy since the height of the power head above the oiler changes with height of cut so one would have to building a flexible extension into the pipe. This has the potential to get caught up in things.

Another is peculiar to my mill whereby I can swap the chain out without removing the chain saw from the mill but it requires no other connection of any kind between the power head and the mill otherwise the chain cannot sneak past - this is very to difficult to explain without showing it to you. This could be gotten around with some sort of quick connect.

What I like is the principle of coupling oil flow to some aspect of engine operation - I'll be thinking about that for a while now. Thanks

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Another thing thats just occured to me is that on my old 038 theres a blanked of area where the grip warmer switch fits.

I don't have the foggiest notion what voltage the coil produces, but surely it could be wired up to produce power for an electric chain oiler thats controlled by an electrical switch.

The switch can be the bog standard type that usually controlls the heating element surely?
That way it won't look out of place and its where a switch normally lives anyway.
Then a small jackplug that connects to the electrical pump?

Theres a bloke on one of the motorcycle forums that made up an electrical chain oiler device and I would have thought that his design might work in this situation.
You don't happen to know what voltage the heater generator coil chucks out do you? If its too high it can be sorted with a resistor and if to low a coil.

Maybe?

Scott.

BobL said:

Excellent idea but it has a couple of things that need sorting.

One is that there are times such as when warming up and cooling down the saw, pausing to find wedges etc that the engine is running but one doesn't want the oil to flow.

The other is running a vacuum line from the power head across the mill rails to the oiler is not that easy since the height of the power head above the oiler changes with height of cut so one would have to building a flexible extension into the pipe. This has the potential to get caught up in things.

Another is peculiar to my mill whereby I can swap the chain out without removing the chain saw from the mill but it requires no other connection of any kind between the power head and the mill otherwise the chain cannot sneak past - this is very to difficult to explain without showing it to you. This could be gotten around with some sort of quick connect.

What I like is the principle of coupling oil flow to some aspect of engine operation - I'll be thinking about that for a while now. Thanks

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Bob, thats why the oiler runs off the clutch drive, so it only oils/runs when the chain is spinning. Now if anyone can rig something up its you!!

Rockfarmer said:

Bob, thats why the oiler runs off the clutch drive, so it only oils/runs when the chain is spinning. Now if anyone can rig something up its you!!

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Oh boy now that's a challenge if I ever hear one. I have already started thinking - optical sensor - gets dirty too quickly, sound level sensor - promising - small amplifier - relay switch - to EM tap - needs a battery - battery goes flat - needs an indicator LED - getting a bit technical - back to drawing board - good fun though!

BobL said:

Oh boy now that's a challenge if I ever hear one. I have already started thinking - optical sensor - gets dirty too quickly, sound level sensor - promising - small amplifier - relay switch - to EM tap - needs a battery - battery goes flat - needs an indicator LED - getting a bit technical - back to drawing board - good fun though!

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Is there a cold weather version of your saw with the electrically heated handles?

If theres spare power avaliable from the coil (and I have read through my manual and still don't know if theres spare wires on my 038 AV super that will do it) then you might be able to use that to power it.
As thew switch is at the powerhead end its no bother to reach it, a bit of wire to the pump and a contoller for the pump.
That way the saw produces the power (might be AC but a bridge rectifier isn't hard to make) for the pump.

No fancy sensors to clog up or fail either.

demographic said:

Is there a cold weather version of your saw with the electrically heated handles?

If theres spare power avaliable from the coil (and I have read through my manual and still don't know if theres spare wires on my 038 AV super that will do it) then you might be able to use that to power it.
As thew switch is at the powerhead end its no bother to reach it, a bit of wire to the pump and a contoller for the pump.
That way the saw produces the power (might be AC but a bridge rectifier isn't hard to make) for the pump.

No fancy sensors to clog up or fail either.

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Thats a really good idea but still has a wire that will get in the way of my chain removal and it will need some additional control so that it doesn't release the oil until it is above a certain RPM threshold.

BobL said:

Thats a really good idea but still has a wire that will get in the way of my chain removal and it will need some additional control so that it doesn't release the oil until it is above a certain RPM threshold.

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I don't know about the additional control (well I'm pretty sure I know someone who does) but the wire could just be on a audio jackplug.
Easy to pull out and easy to put in place, you could even have the switch on the motorbike grip switchgear (that I have seen on one of your setups that I read through in the last couple of days) instead of on the saw?

Mind, I don't know what the coil output is or if theres additional capacity on the standard saws as yet anyway.

BobL said:

Oh boy now that's a challenge if I ever hear one. I have already started thinking - optical sensor - gets dirty too quickly, sound level sensor - promising - small amplifier - relay switch - to EM tap - needs a battery - battery goes flat - needs an indicator LED - getting a bit technical - back to drawing board - good fun though!

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Bob how about a sail switch where the sail is deflected by the exhaust or cooling fan air exit when you pull the trigger. just so long as it doesn't hamper cooling. It would be somewhat fragile but lightweight. It would get hot, but other idea is a vacuum switch triggered by pico(can't remember proper name of device) tube near magneto cooling fan. Air drawn across a tube perpendicular to the tube creates vacuum. Once the vacuum is measured a switch could be selected to fit application at WOT. Thermocouple on exhaust. Actually the vacuum switch could go on the intake as suggested earlier. Tac trigger? Bob, you crack me up I'm sitting here chuckling now thinking on this. Would be convenient though to have automatic oil shutoff.
Ok how about electric servo motor off of a model airplane. Solenoid.
Actually Bob if it were me I'd keep what you have. Technology can be reliable but the more there is the more to go wrong.....will be interesting to see what you come up with. I had the thought this morning about placing an order from you-keep up the good work!

Double-ended bar with a second clutch/sprocket assembly at nose end & chainsaw oiler assembly rigged to run off the clutch drum, same as saw's internal oiler? As far as using a coil for power, most run in the 12-15kV range and produce almost no amperage, much like a neon sign transformer. So I don't know how you'd go about making that usable while not killing your spark.