Chimney Liners

Had a thread going recently about a wood stove insert. Got some really good info from that, but have a different question entirely now. I did search on the subject of chimney liners, but didn’t seem to get the detailed info I was looking for. Made sense to me that it may help not only my questions, but other members’ as well to have a thread dedicated to this subject.

I purchased a used Regency insert that came very highly recommended to me as a good deal for pre-owned unit (also my first). $150 and in perfect condition. The chimney where I’m going to install it has been used maybe 5 times in its 45 year life…all last winter by me. I had it inspected both by a chimney sweep and a very experienced brick layer/chimney builder (he’s built over 500). Both are very trusted sources and said the chimney is as clean and solid as the day it was finished…and built by an outstanding craftsman apparently too (what every proud homeowner loves to hear!) It was suggested that I don’t even bother putting a liner in and just put the insert in.

While I don’t really see this as a safety issue (at least for the short-term), I could see some other negatives:

-I assume I’d have to pull the unit out for the chimney to be cleaned?
-Not sure if the unit would be properly drafted (efficiency)?
-Big ol’ open space for more heat to escape too?

***I do have a very good friend that has been in the stove industry for over 25 years. I plan on consulting with him on this matter as well…but thought to throw it out there anyway.


Let’s hear some opinions on chimney liners…

i think you answered your own question with your three negative points, we also require a liner for any new install (which your insert falls under), go with the liner. my chimney sweep damaged my stone hearth pulling the insert out one year and then the next year my chimney cresoted so bad they had to use a special drill attachment to chip off all the glaze, i guess by now you have figured my chimney is lined.

Loud and clear. I'm always of the attitude of asking the experts too. The way I see it...I was told the structure is in perfect condition by the experts that would know that...and the experts on stoves will tell me to put the liner in for the reasons you just mentioned.

Just saw this listed online:

"The big issue with fireplace insert installations is flue oversizing: most fireplace flues are WAY too big to efficiently vent the exhaust coming out of the 6" or 8" flue collars on today's inserts. Installing the liner eliminates flue oversizing violation, ensures the best possible insert performance..."

I've used a regency insert for 6 years in my masonry chimney with the standard clay flue , no additional liner needed, no problems with cleaning, no problems with creosote, no problems with getting the unit to draft properly. I still use it occasionally but not often since I installed an outdoor wood boiler.

Would I lose a lot more heat up the chimney without a liner? I'm ready to put this guy in! We've already seen frost here...

Spend the $$ on the stainless liner. 316ti i the way to go. You will have to pull the insert every time you clean. While it may vary slightly, once a year cleaning is usually minimum. Do you want to pull the insert every year?

Also, ten bucks says it's code in your area to have a liner. If you do have a problem, what will you insurance company think?

Also, you need the liner (6 inches is probably the size for your insert) to get a good draft that is designed for your insert. Your efficiency will drop, and, with out using the liner, you will have increased creosote build up (cooling of the flu gases that are now moving slower and getting cooler due to the larger than designed (for your insert) flu size of your current chimney.

It's not worth it. Go with the liner. Here are some good prices:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=chimney+liner

Do it right and then you will sleep well at night. Installation is easy. Use a stainless block off plate at the bottom of the chase and at the top, along with cap. If you really want to do it right, get the liner insulation kit. Worry free for many, many years. You got a good deal on the stove. Now use that money you saved to get a top notch install. KD

Here's what I was told. You need at least enough flexible liner to connect the stove (insert) to the chimney where you can pack some un-faced insulation around the liner to prvent a back draft from letting cold air into the house. I put a full length liner in mine so I don't have to remove the insert to clean the chimney.

i need to put a liner in my house. bought my house 6 months ago. no fires yet but will be doing them soon. the inspection report stated "i should" install a liner and i don't think its code because if it was the house would not have been sold. so long story short how hard is it to install one of these kits. i'm a fairly mechanical guy and have tons of tools and if i don't have it i will buy it:biggrinbounce2:

It's probably not "code" specifically.

If you look in the manual for your insert, the manual states "approved chimney lining system" meeting UL spec XXXX, or specifies something more specific like "6 inch flue lining system meeting UL spec 1777" (or better), or "installation must comply with UL listing XXXX" (don't remember exact code).

Then, I'm sure your local code regarding inserts states "installation will follow manufacturer's specifications, reccomendations, or requirements" or something to that effect. So that is how they get you pinned down to follow "the book".

Here is a good website that will answer your questions better than I can:

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/forums/viewcategory/1/

Good luck, KD

How about getting the liner through the damper? Looks like I'm going to have to cut it out...maybe even break some of the masonry to fit a 6" tube throught there. Doesn't that kinda ruin the whole thing for the next owner that may not want to use a stove? I guess someone can have a new damper installed if needed?

If its not code I personally wouldn't't put it in. I also have a well designed chimney that generates good draft with no insert. Go without out it, see how the stove performs. If you have an efficient stove and you burn seasoned wood you will likely be fine.
In my opinion the insert requirement(where it is code) is motherhood. The catch all for poorly designed chimney flu's and a little extra protection for those who do not clean their chimneys. A well designed properly sized flu does not need one.

danielmccurdy said:

How about getting the liner through the damper? Looks like I'm going to have to cut it out...maybe even break some of the masonry to fit a 6" tube throught there. Doesn't that kinda ruin the whole thing for the next owner that may not want to use a stove? I guess someone can have a new damper installed if needed?

Click to expand...

You are supposed to remove the damper when intalling the unit.

Alright, I'll give it a shot without the liner. My thoughts are that I can always go back and install one if needed. Any tips on what to keep on the look out for? I'll post my findings after I get it in there...most likely this weekend.

asb151 said:

If its not code I personally wouldn't't put it in.

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So you wouldn't wear a seatbelt if it wasn't required?

RECKLESS and STUPID

danielmccurdy said:

Alright, I'll give it a shot without the liner. My thoughts are that I can always go back and install one if needed. Any tips on what to keep on the look out for? I'll post my findings after I get it in there...most likely this weekend.

Click to expand...

Nothing personal...... but installing an insert without a proper sized liner is RECKLESS and STUPID. You are just asking for TROUBLE. To vent a airtight solid fuel heating unit designed to be vented with a 6" or 8" vent pipe into an unlined chimney is dangerous and you are just asking for a Chimney/House Fire.

Heres a Tip: Make sure your home owners, life, and health insurance are all paid up to date and have your children practice a fire evacuation plan.

Heres a thought, and I'm not telling you to pull a permit. Call and find out what your local building code requires. Then ask them why or why not. See what they tell you.

I personally have no trouble sleeping at night knowing that I have a full load cooking ten feet below me and my family. If I installed my stove like you plan on doing, then I would not get any sleep.

The reason they came up with the full length liner system is because the problems (fires) they had with the older outdated type of install (like your planning on doing). But, if your not worried about it, then go for it. Just try to imagine what the ramifications are if you do have a problem. I am the ultimate cheapskate, but, after I did my homework, there was no question about the liner.

Ever seen a chimney fire? It's like a rocket going off, sounds like a frieght train, and the firemen just stand there and watch, maybe try to save the rest of the house by keeping a hose on the parts that are not burning, but, they stay away from the chimney with the water cuz this could cause an explosion when water hits it.

If you choose to not full reline, then diligent chimney cleaning on a regular basis is a must, and don't forget the shelf where all the crap from the chimney falls on it. You need to get up there with a shop vac and make sure all debris from cleaning the chimney is removed. Your insert will be kicking out allot higher of a flu temp then a fireplace, so, the risk of a chimney fire is greater. Before you install the insert, clean the chimney well. You could have build up in there that would not catch with the lower flu temps from the fireplace, but can with the higher temps from the insert.

I like the seatbelt thing. Another way to put is a circuit breaker in your homes electrical system is not needed to give you electricity, but it's ther for safety. Ever trip a breaker? Do you have smoke alarms in the house? Why? Run it by your wife and see what she thinks you should do.

Somethings are not worth saving a few bucks over. KD

sedanman said:

So you wouldn't wear a seatbelt if it wasn't required?

Click to expand...

Not a relevant analogy. Not EVERY flu needs a liner. It depends on the design and size of the flu.

I dunno, I thought it was a pretty good analogy. You don't need seatbelts everytime you take a drive. You only need them when you get into an accident. You just don't know when that is gonna be, so you wear them all the time to be sure.

I don't think anybody says, today is the day I'm gonna get into an accident, so I think I'll wear seatbelts today.

Personally, I feel it should be left up to the individual to make their own choice (with seatbelts, motorcycle helmets or chimney liners). But, in the long run who ends up paying for it?

I researched this topic for a long time with lots and lots of reading . The question was asked, and I offerred my informed opinion, and I respect the informed opinions of others. KD

asb151 said:

Not a relevant analogy. Not EVERY flu needs a liner. It depends on the design and size of the flu.

Click to expand...

By installing a "Chimney Liner" the owner of the solid fuel heating device allows the unit to perform to its optimium. I have never seen a hand built flu be as small as 6 inches....never. The majority of fireplace chimneys in my area are 10 x 10. The larger the flue the harder it is to keep the flu at or above temps to eliminate creosote buildup.

What it boils down to.....Can you place a price on the safety of your home and loved ones??? I guess its $300 for a liner kit, 4-6 hours time, and a case a beer with a couple friends.

Sleep Well !!!

Wow, now we're getting somewhere. WoodTick007, thanks for the tips. No sweat btw, you were stating your opinion on the ACT of not putting a liner in as being stupid and reckless...not calling me stupid and reckless. Thanks for the preface anyway! This is obviously a controversial subject, and I figured it would be when I posted this...even more important to have it keep going!

Up to the point of my last post yesterday morning I hadn't seen much good solid info in why or why not to put a liner in. I think it would be important to mention that my chimney IS lined with terra cotta already. I guess I left that out even though I mentioned that the chimney was not really used and in perfect condition. Its not 10x10...its more rectangle shaped...I'll get in there later and take a measurement.

Hey, I'm all for sleeping easier at night...and TRUST me, if I am truly putting myself and my family at higher risk by not putting something in, it wouldn't even be a consideration! There is NO price tag on that one...period.

From the posts following my last one it sounds like people are most concerned with the long-term issues. I think I mentioned that I will go back and install one later if its needed. That was pretty much my plan anyways...being that its a pretty minimal cost for if nothing else at least having greater peace of mind.

Thanks for the info...keep it coming!

Just a side note, I don't need the government to tell me I need to wear a seatbelt (amongst numerous other things!)...not wearing one-that's just quality stupid.