A bad day with large crane, larger wood, and a house.

[tjbier]

WOW that is fubar.....

 

[Curlycherry1]

I worked with some cranes on construction in my day and the good operators always say "pick small, and pick often." With a hunk of a tree like that they should really be erring on the side of caution and taking shorter and shorter hunks off as they get to the stump.

 

[Wood Scrounge]

I thought I would add the picture of the crane in the house. What a mess

just out of curiosity would the crane operator insist that no one be in the house? is that a standard practice?

 

[superfire]

omg

boy this shows how some people should not be in the tree service industry. the thing i see is a tree crew trying to do more then there equipment could handle. the crane was the type was not able to handle the load be hooked to it. a second big problem is the operator screwed up royally he should have check each piece and had the final say if the piece being cut was to big. this is one reason i do not trust arborist when they cut on my land, i am very anal about how trees need to be removed. i have seen to many tree service company's that hire chainsaw hackers not surgeons. just go to show you get what you pay for.

 

[Iska3]

boy this shows how some people should not be in the tree service industry. the thing i see is a tree crew trying to do more then there equipment could handle. the crane was the type was not able to handle the load be hooked to it. a second big problem is the operator screwed up royally he should have check each piece and had the final say if the piece being cut was to big. this is one reason i do not trust arborist when they cut on my land, i am very anal about how trees need to be removed. i have seen to many tree service company's that hire chainsaw hackers not surgeons. just go to show you get what you pay for.

It looks like the tree service did a good job of taking down the tree. Gott'a give them credit for that. I'd be thinkling the 'Reliable Crain Service' is the one messed up big time. Should'a put an ad on CL for Free Firewood.

 

[1harlowr]

The crane operator is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens with a crane. He has the first and final say on it all. Tree service guys take the tree down, crane guy hauls it out.

 

[jerryw66]

The crane operator is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens with a crane. He has the first and final say on it all. Tree service guys take the tree down, crane guy hauls it out.

You are absolutely correct. I've known several crane operators quite well over the years, and they are not all good crane operators. A couple of them really scared me. They are the ones that would take chances like this guy apparently did. A good operator would never allow this to happen. Remember when big blue crashed at Milwaukee.

 

[Spotted Owl]

Before jumping to anymore conclusions and finger pointing.

How many of you guys are qualified crane operators? I have been for going on 12 years now. How many of you have been operating a crane that has been shock loaded? I have and it's just about the worst situation an operator can be in.

You can be picking a load well inside the limits of weight, angle, and stick length and if it shock loads this unfortunately can and does happen. Depending on how bad the shock is determines everything. As an operator you can tell when the load is to much, mechanical strain, boom flex, whip strain vibration, getting light in the seat, over weight override. Even when happening in slow motion the operator is next to powerless to stop something like this once started. About the only thing possible to do is E-drop the load(not always a fast drop) and/or swing away. Both in hopes that the shock energy is slowed or redirected enough to stop the this outcome. Not knowing anything other than what is printed I'm not sure I would have done anything different. The house was empty, there is a man in the tree and presumably grunt(s) on the ground, both out of site line by looking at the areal photo. The climber would/should know better than to be in the direct path of the load as well as the grunts, which right above the load is the machine. Not being able to see them and knowing there is an empty house I would opt for the house instead of possibly dumping the load onto or swinging the load into a body that I cannot see and possibly killing, crippling anyone on the ground be they either worker or neighbor. The ending could very well have been part of a last ditch emergency plan.

Loads shift, loads and rigging break, boom structure failures and shock loads can and do happen for any number of reasons. Riggers rig things wrong even when instructed exactly how it is to be done. More than once I have fired an oiler for not following exact directions and not knowing until the load was is sight and I knew what had been done.

This is a bad day bar none. The operator gets all the credit both good and bad just like any other job skin, bull or side rod out there. Believe it or not, in this case the credit may be good with a very good out come of lives saved. Property damage is secondary to human life. I'm looking at this from a different point of view than most though.



Owl

 

[ropensaddle]

Before jumping to anymore conclusions and finger pointing.

How many of you guys are qualified crane operators? I have been for going on 12 years now. How many of you have been operating a crane that has been shock loaded? I have and it's just about the worst situation an operator can be in.

You can be picking a load well inside the limits of weight, angle, and stick length and if it shock loads this unfortunately can and does happen. Depending on how bad the shock is determines everything. As an operator you can tell when the load is to much, mechanical strain, boom flex, whip strain vibration, getting light in the seat, over weight override. Even when happening in slow motion the operator is next to powerless to stop something like this once started. About the only thing possible to do is E-drop the load(not always a fast drop) and/or swing away. Both in hopes that the shock energy is slowed or redirected enough to stop the this outcome. Not knowing anything other than what is printed I'm not sure I would have done anything different. The house was empty, there is a man in the tree and presumably grunt(s) on the ground, both out of site line by looking at the areal photo. The climber would/should know better than to be in the direct path of the load as well as the grunts, which right above the load is the machine. Not being able to see them and knowing there is an empty house I would opt for the house instead of possibly dumping the load onto or swinging the load into a body that I cannot see and possibly killing, crippling anyone on the ground be they either worker or neighbor. The ending could very well have been part of a last ditch emergency plan.

Loads shift, loads and rigging break, boom structure failures and shock loads can and do happen for any number of reasons. Riggers rig things wrong even when instructed exactly how it is to be done. More than once I have fired an oiler for not following exact directions and not knowing until the load was is sight and I knew what had been done.

This is a bad day bar none. The operator gets all the credit both good and bad just like any other job skin, bull or side rod out there. Believe it or not, in this case the credit may be good with a very good out come of lives saved. Property damage is secondary to human life. I'm looking at this from a different point of view than most though.



Owl

Ok I get what you are saying however still does not mean if cut smaller the whole event could not have occurred. After looking in the back yard it seems to me the log could have been dropped which is what I would have done then rigged to hoist over and out to street. Why do picks if its unnecessary just asking for more risk than necessary. If pick must be made throw in healthy safety factors as my ass is on that spar.

 

[ropensaddle]

The crane operator is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens with a crane. He has the first and final say on it all. Tree service guys take the tree down, crane guy hauls it out.

Ok read my post above; he may have the shared responsibility but my ass is on the spar. I am not going to let him dictate #### if he is trying to be dangerous. I bid the job, he works for me, he will take lighter picks if I say so.

 

[wkpoor]

That aerial pic makes me wonder why a crane was on site at all. To save time I guess but any one of us could have cut it up on site and wheel borrowed the small pieces out. Didn't look like a place to require the expense of a crane to me.

 

[jerryw66]

Before jumping to anymore conclusions and finger pointing.

How many of you guys are qualified crane operators? I have been for going on 12 years now. How many of you have been operating a crane that has been shock loaded? I have and it's just about the worst situation an operator can be in.

You can be picking a load well inside the limits of weight, angle, and stick length and if it shock loads this unfortunately can and does happen. Depending on how bad the shock is determines everything. As an operator you can tell when the load is to much, mechanical strain, boom flex, whip strain vibration, getting light in the seat, over weight override. Even when happening in slow motion the operator is next to powerless to stop something like this once started. About the only thing possible to do is E-drop the load(not always a fast drop) and/or swing away. Both in hopes that the shock energy is slowed or redirected enough to stop the this outcome. Not knowing anything other than what is printed I'm not sure I would have done anything different. The house was empty, there is a man in the tree and presumably grunt(s) on the ground, both out of site line by looking at the areal photo. The climber would/should know better than to be in the direct path of the load as well as the grunts, which right above the load is the machine. Not being able to see them and knowing there is an empty house I would opt for the house instead of possibly dumping the load onto or swinging the load into a body that I cannot see and possibly killing, crippling anyone on the ground be they either worker or neighbor. The ending could very well have been part of a last ditch emergency plan.

Loads shift, loads and rigging break, boom structure failures and shock loads can and do happen for any number of reasons. Riggers rig things wrong even when instructed exactly how it is to be done. More than once I have fired an oiler for not following exact directions and not knowing until the load was is sight and I knew what had been done.

This is a bad day bar none. The operator gets all the credit both good and bad just like any other job skin, bull or side rod out there. Believe it or not, in this case the credit may be good with a very good out come of lives saved. Property damage is secondary to human life. I'm looking at this from a different point of view than most though.



Owl

You talk about loads shifting and shock loads, A good crane operator considers this and makes sure it doesn't happen. I am around cranes all the time and have seen accidents where no damage was done, But It could have been fatal. That type of crane operator makes me nervous. Others I've been around have never had an accident and I am willing to bet, never will, they just don't take stupid chances. I know some accidents are just that, unpreventable accidents, but a very high percentage can be avoided, such as what we see on this thread.

 

[dingeryote]

Just eyeballing the pic, it looks as if maybe the crane operator mighta been working blind and on communications with somebody on the other side of the house. Now that leads to wondering if it in fact wasn't just a Comm error magnified by the climber snipping the drop before slack was taken in, on a load that was misjudged in weight by the guy acting as the crane operators eyeballs....

I dunno. I wasn't there, but can see where all manner of simple error could be easily magnified into the mess in the pic.

Simple and clear communications is usually the culprit in most errors though.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[tomtrees58]

nice:jawdrop:tom trees

 

[Hoister]

Ive done some tree's ...I agree alot with what Spotted Owl has to say ..


Im the operator ..the guy on the ground he's the arborist ..I know my crane what its capable of what i want and dont want ..
the arborist is to know the jest of rigging ..I'll make sure ..trust me ..but as far a calculating weight of a tree ..Isnt that the job of the arborist ..I mean ..I could do it ..but do you really want me to climb a tree ,,measure the diameter ..and determine lenght of the piece to be cut ..Im easy ..but you wont like the bill ..
There has to be this element of trust ....you determine the weight ..I tell you what i can lift ,If you dont know say ...and we'll go the slow safe way of smaller cuts, to get an idea of what this tree is doing as we cut further down ..try and find a balance of productivity and safty ..there is a medium ..

Thats actually cheaper than cleaning up a mess ..

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

It don't look so Sick to me
that's why I say Karma is to blame
they let a wood nymph out and she was pissed off

 

[howellhandmade]

Just eyeballing the pic, it looks as if maybe the crane operator mighta been working blind and on communications with somebody on the other side of the house. Now that leads to wondering if it in fact wasn't just a Comm error magnified by the climber snipping the drop before slack was taken in, on a load that was misjudged in weight by the guy acting as the crane operators eyeballs....

I dunno. I wasn't there, but can see where all manner of simple error could be easily magnified into the mess in the pic.

Simple and clear communications is usually the culprit in most errors though.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

That's what I thought, too, the crane operator can't see through the house, and if he gets out to inspect every rig and load, who handles the crane? He's got to trust the guy(s) on the other side of the house no to put something too big on the hook, or drop it before he's ready.

But after thinking about it, the real problem was that the homeowners weren't wood burners. I had two oaks darn near that size taken down in my back yard by a climber early this past spring, and they're now split and stacked no more than 10 yards from where they grew. If the owners had wanted the firewood, there would have been no need for a crane in the first place.

Jack

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

It appears from these last pictures of the cutting that he did not do a back cut on that big piece tha

this last pic before the crane fell

and the last piece that made it over successfully

the one that caused the tipping

It was too big of a piece, and too much slack to allow it to fall away from the house without a back cut or hinge to slow the momentum.

Id blame the person that tied it on and cut it. Is the crane operator to view and approve every cut ?

 

[ropensaddle]

It appears from these last pictures of the cutting that he did not do a back cut on that big piece tha

this last pic before the crane fell

and the last piece that made it over successfully

the one that caused the tipping

It was too big of a piece, and too much slack to allow it to fall away from the house without a back cut or hinge to slow the momentum.

Id blame the person that tied it on and cut it. Is the crane operator to view and approve every cut ?

That is several tons too much at that much stick and angle for sure. I still don't see why they did not fell it then cut and rig to lift it out.


That if cut in half would have been better but still at his angle and full stick plus jib 6 foot sections would have got it done and not mess.

 

[jerryw66]

I don't believe a good crane operator with good sense would let himself get into a mess like that, to me it looks like fools with big tools.