Was done quite a bit in Europe during WWII due to gas shortages. Info on converting a car is on the Internet (Surprise!). A bit of a chore for short trips, but a neat way to live 'off of the grid'.
Philbert
Any lateral thinkers here? What to do with 1000's of cords of 'waste' wood?
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Was done quite a bit in Europe during WWII due to gas shortages. Info on converting a car is on the Internet (Surprise!). A bit of a chore for short trips, but a neat way to live 'off of the grid'.
Philbert
half
ArboristSite Operative
oil and other fuel
As you say, oil is the best fuel for the current technology, But as has been already said ,once a gallon is used it is gone, I think as the cost of oil rises due to the increasing demand, people will look at cheaper sources of fuel,mainly because the cost will be prohibitive to run the country in the way we are all used to. I dont know the way it will go but there are a lot of people doing strange stuff out there, with gas and plant material. beavering away in sheds and labs, keeping very quiet. it is a dangerous thing to do, if you pop your head up, the oil companys dont like it. Soon one of these will pop there head up and be counted. Even if we go back to steam, the only thing that killed it was the pollution and the costs in time in getting it going. but the cheap petrol was the main killer, and the internal combustion engine rose to the top. Now is the time for the new power source to rise up. not nuclear either
As you say, oil is the best fuel for the current technology, But as has been already said ,once a gallon is used it is gone, I think as the cost of oil rises due to the increasing demand, people will look at cheaper sources of fuel,mainly because the cost will be prohibitive to run the country in the way we are all used to. I dont know the way it will go but there are a lot of people doing strange stuff out there, with gas and plant material. beavering away in sheds and labs, keeping very quiet. it is a dangerous thing to do, if you pop your head up, the oil companys dont like it. Soon one of these will pop there head up and be counted. Even if we go back to steam, the only thing that killed it was the pollution and the costs in time in getting it going. but the cheap petrol was the main killer, and the internal combustion engine rose to the top. Now is the time for the new power source to rise up. not nuclear either
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My “main gripe” is that taxpayer dollars should not be used to bail-out failing private companies, especially year after year… after year… after year… after year… after year… after year! That’s what these subsidies to alternative energy producers amount to, just bail-out money. People got angry when the government recently bailed-out Fannie & Freddie and the auto makers… well hell, that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the bail-out money that’s been given to the alternative energy industries over the last 40 years or so. After decades of bail-outs, hundreds of trillions of dollars, not a single form of alternative (so-called) “green” energy can stand on its own in the marketplace.
Our government has spent itself into massive dept… a dept that is near impossible to pay-back. And year after year it continues to hand-out billions of dollars to these alternative (so-called) “green” energy industries... industries that provide little (if any) tax revenue because they’re operating in red ink. Industries that suck up dollars and resources, contributing massively to the price increases we see at the grocery store, the fuel pump, in our heating and electric bills, and you-name-it. Meanwhile, the “green” lobby successfully pressures our government into putting strangle-holds on energy industries that have the potential to create hundreds of thousands of jobs, generate millions in tax revenue, pump mountains of cash into the economy, provide centuries of cheap energy, and (most importantly) they don’t need any hand-outs!!! The whole thing is stupid… the poorest example of money and business management that’s ever been seen on this planet.
Don’t talk to me about “someday”, about our energy needs in some distant future… we need to be concerned about “now”… because if we continue down the current path there ain’t gonna’ be any future to look forward to.
I have one question…
Exactly how long does it take to “develop” these alternative energy sources?
Let’s see now, man has been burning biomass as a heat source since the days of living in a cave… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
Let’s see now, man has been converting biomass into Ethanol since well before the birth of Christ… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
Let’s see now, man has been harnessing the power of the wind to grind grain, pump water, move ships, and a bunch of other things for at least 3000 years… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
Let’s see now, man has been harnessing the power of the sun at least since the Roman Empire; they used glass and mica solar collectors on southern facing walls for heat energy. The photovoltaic effect was discovered 173 years ago, the first electric solar cell was invented 132 years ago… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
I’m done with this thread.
Exactly how long does it take to “develop” these alternative energy sources?
Let’s see now, man has been burning biomass as a heat source since the days of living in a cave… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
Let’s see now, man has been converting biomass into Ethanol since well before the birth of Christ… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
Let’s see now, man has been harnessing the power of the wind to grind grain, pump water, move ships, and a bunch of other things for at least 3000 years… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
Let’s see now, man has been harnessing the power of the sun at least since the Roman Empire; they used glass and mica solar collectors on southern facing walls for heat energy. The photovoltaic effect was discovered 173 years ago, the first electric solar cell was invented 132 years ago… you trying to tell me we ain’t developed it yet? Maybe, just maybe after that long it’s as good as it ever will be… don’t you think?
I’m done with this thread.
Anyone gonna tell him that we have only been using dino oil for the last 100 - 150 years or so?
Philbert
zogger
Tree Freak
Modern photovoltaics used to cost around 10 grand a panel in 60s money, first used a lot for satellites. It is now down to a dollar a watt. And it keeps getting better, high efficiency and cheaper construction costs.
Really, you are a smart guy but there's a lot of rush limbaugh class alleged "facts" being promulgated here that aren't close to reality.
Heck, what we all use chainsaws. Modern chainsaws get good power, less emissions, and much better efficiency than the older ones. Turn higher rpms, etc. and the two stroke was invented..no idea, a long time ago. Metallurgy is better, chemistry is better, our understanding and use of electricty is better, all of it.
Stuff gets better the more enthusiasts work on it.
I am an "all of the above" energy guy, I like all of it, including the "alternatives". They all have their place. Heck, I am not real against ethanol fuel...where it is appropriate and makes some sense. I am against the corn stuff, but I think research into stuff like switchgrass, cellulose from scrap wood, industrial hemp, etc...there's some potential out there. The algae biodiesel type oil is looking to come along nicely sometime soon as well. There's some really smart guys working on that right now, a lot of different places. Some areas of the world they make dandy biodiesel from a common noxious weed, jatropha. That's using biomass for some good purpose, they got to deal with them plants anyway, might as well get some use from them.
We are humans, tinkerers, we don't just stop at some technological point and decide "that's it, the best we can do". Stuff keeps improving..
I bet everyone here uses lithium ion batteries in something..we aren't carrying around leyden jars to power our portable devices.
1project2many
ArboristSite Guru
lol.
Overall that post just isn't typical WS quality. I think he's getting wound up over something.
Exactly. WS's own posts about building version two of his furnace illustrate that.
Excellent use for the plates from failed solar voltaics and the drums from failed biodiesel reactors.
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Yeah, you’re correct, I did sort’a let emotion drive that post… I was getting a bit weary of running ‘round & ‘round the same wood pile. That’s not normally me… shame, shame, shame on me. So I’ll swallow my “I’m done with this thread” and post once more.
Actually that was my point… sort’a; but I didn’t illustrate it very well.
In the 1850’s a lawyer by the name of George Bissell, believing petroleum could replace whale oil as lamp fuel, hired a chemist to investigate the properties Pennsylvania crude. He put together investors and in 1859 the first US oil well was drilled… and it forever changed the world. In just a few short years the oil boom was in high gear; not just in the US but globally. By the end of the century petroleum had made nearly all other forms of energy generation obsolete or, as in the case of coal, semi-obsolete.
In just 40 years (approximately the same amount of time we’ve been subsidizing “green” energy) oil had, or was, replacing the ancient wind, solar and biomass forms of energy… AND IT DID THIS WITHOUT ANY GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES!!! By the time the 1901 Texas oil boom hit, the internal combustion engine was ready to begin replacing the wood/coal fired steam engine. Even Henry Ford had to go with petro based fuel… He originally designed the Model-T to run off Ethanol so farmers could distill their own fuel, but changed his mind when he realized how much better gasoline (a relatively new product) was as a motor fuel.
Coal had driven the Industrial Revolution.
Oil started the age of personal mobility and drove the Electronic Revolution.
Then, because of some idiot in the White House during the 70’s, we started pouring billions of dollars into trying to make other forms of energy replace oil; the same ancient forms of energy that oil had replaced… It’s moving backwards, not forwards… nuclear energy is the future, its just that people don’t know it, or won’t admit it yet.
I pretty much gotta’ give you that one… I got nothin’.
Well… what I do have ain’t much and it’s sort’a petty… but I’ll throw it out anyway just so you don’t get the last word.
Without oil there would have been no Electronic Revolution, and no need for lithium-ion batteries.
Yeah but them dang ol' communist Europeons are a threat to america and our way of life! Kill em!:bang:
"The problem isnt in how much oil we use".......so you dont find it a problem that we use more than 2x the amount of oil the next largest consuming country (china) does?
Do you actually have any numbers on how much production would be affected if all the areas the GOP and oil companies wanted to drill were "in play"?
Fossil fuels will NOT be around for ever... not even another 100 years. At that point we have better have another substitute ready to go. Also, the reason green energy firms are compensated is precisely because of people with viewpoints like yourself; when someone cant see past the tips of their own boots they tend not to plan for the tough road ahead. Green energy may not be the most cost effective plan at this point, but it needs subsidiaries to keep it somewhat competitive so the technology can advance. This is technology we will all be needing sometime in the future
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half
ArboristSite Operative
fuels
Another way to look at the drilling problem,,When countrys are rushing to buy the 'last' barrel of oil at some crazy price, wont the country that has sat on its oil, and left it in the ground, basically control the world energy supplies. oil is required for so many things beside transport
Another way to look at the drilling problem,,When countrys are rushing to buy the 'last' barrel of oil at some crazy price, wont the country that has sat on its oil, and left it in the ground, basically control the world energy supplies. oil is required for so many things beside transport
This is a good point....one of the reasons there is a US reserve of fuel
RandyMac
Stiff Member
By the time that happens, we will be fighting over water.
Fossil fuels will NOT be around for ever... not even another 100 years????!!!!
And you’re the one making accusations of “ignorance and cliche`propaganda” being used in this thread… What a laugh!!
OMG!!! The sky is falling… the sky is falling… the sky is falling!!! LOL
How anyone can make such a claim, when near 80% of the earth’s crust remains unexplored for oil is beyond me. I suppose you still believe oil is the remains of ancient plants and animals? Well then, explain to me how it is the oil discovered in Viet Nam was found hundreds of feet deep in igneous rock?
You do know that the “plant/animal thing” is just an unproven hypothesis, right? Some Russian guy came up with it decades ago. The problem with that is that the numbers just aren’t adding up… seems there’s way too much oil for that. Did you know that some of the old, supposedly “pumped out” oil fields have been discovered to be filling back up? And they’re filling back up with oil that is much younger than the original deposit!!! There’s a new hypothesis that indicates that oil is a natural result of the reaction between carbons and earth dynamics… and it explains why oil is sometimes found where it shouldn’t be, such as in igneous rock and very young parts of the earths crust. Approximately 90% of the sea floor has been unexplored for oil… and geological studies using the “new” hypothesis make conservative estimates of oil deposits in the deep ocean floor to be enough for 60,000 years at current consumption levels!!! That’s not a typo, 60,000 years!!! Of course, that isn’t proven… BUT NEITHER IS THE ANCIENT PLANT/ANIMAL REMAINS THING!!!
Your, “not even another 100 years” statement is total crap… it only applies to the really easy-to-access oil using 1920’s technology. OMG!!! The sky is falling… the sky is falling… the sky is falling!!! LOL
Less than 100 years??? In a pigs eye!
addendum: Oh yeah… in case you missed the implications of the above.
If the “new” hypothesis turns out to be correct, the CO and CO[sub]2[/sub] being released by the burning of (so-called) fossil fuels are actually being recycled back into oil, methane, etc. by the natural processes of the earth.
Get it? That makes oil a renewable resource!!!
And you’re the one making accusations of “ignorance and cliche`propaganda” being used in this thread… What a laugh!!
OMG!!! The sky is falling… the sky is falling… the sky is falling!!! LOL
How anyone can make such a claim, when near 80% of the earth’s crust remains unexplored for oil is beyond me. I suppose you still believe oil is the remains of ancient plants and animals? Well then, explain to me how it is the oil discovered in Viet Nam was found hundreds of feet deep in igneous rock?
You do know that the “plant/animal thing” is just an unproven hypothesis, right? Some Russian guy came up with it decades ago. The problem with that is that the numbers just aren’t adding up… seems there’s way too much oil for that. Did you know that some of the old, supposedly “pumped out” oil fields have been discovered to be filling back up? And they’re filling back up with oil that is much younger than the original deposit!!! There’s a new hypothesis that indicates that oil is a natural result of the reaction between carbons and earth dynamics… and it explains why oil is sometimes found where it shouldn’t be, such as in igneous rock and very young parts of the earths crust. Approximately 90% of the sea floor has been unexplored for oil… and geological studies using the “new” hypothesis make conservative estimates of oil deposits in the deep ocean floor to be enough for 60,000 years at current consumption levels!!! That’s not a typo, 60,000 years!!! Of course, that isn’t proven… BUT NEITHER IS THE ANCIENT PLANT/ANIMAL REMAINS THING!!!
Your, “not even another 100 years” statement is total crap… it only applies to the really easy-to-access oil using 1920’s technology. OMG!!! The sky is falling… the sky is falling… the sky is falling!!! LOL
Less than 100 years??? In a pigs eye!
addendum: Oh yeah… in case you missed the implications of the above.
If the “new” hypothesis turns out to be correct, the CO and CO[sub]2[/sub] being released by the burning of (so-called) fossil fuels are actually being recycled back into oil, methane, etc. by the natural processes of the earth.
Get it? That makes oil a renewable resource!!!
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You wanna explore the ocean floor for oil deposits? Did you forget the BP disaster already?
I was watching Discovering the Titanic the other day.....at nearly 3 miles down, its an extreme challenge to even keep a purpose made, multimillion dollar submarine from imploding. But we can pump oil from the same place?!
Proven oil deposits are extracted using technology available today... whether that technology was around nearly 100 years ago is a mute point. If you go to plant a shrub in your garden, do you use a shovel? How long has that been around? Do you think you have any revelations for how a shovel is supposed to be designed and work?
Now that i did a little more research... looks like their is a little over 40 years or known oil left...Worldometers - real time world statistics
Now any geologist that has his work funded by big oil interests can find "probable' oil deposits at some godforsaken corner of the globe. Ever stop to think that maybe the cost of searching and production for such oil deposits is cost prohibitive? What if some of this oil cost you $7 or more at the pump, would it still be a great commodity?
And btw you are incorrect that Oil companies dont get subsidized... they are subsidized on the exploration to find new oil, to stabilize prices, and shift supply and demand Petroleum industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And please, can we talk about this like adults and get rid of the condescending self righteous tone? !!!!!!!! !!!!! lol
Let's get back on topic:
What are we going to do with all that debris floating to the West Coast of the US from the Japanese tsunami?
And why did the Coast Guard sink that 'ghost' fishing boat, instead of towing it for scrap?
Philbert
What are we going to do with all that debris floating to the West Coast of the US from the Japanese tsunami?
And why did the Coast Guard sink that 'ghost' fishing boat, instead of towing it for scrap?
Philbert
You’re a fool JimiLL… Seriously, Worldometers and Wikipedia? Good lord man, is this a joke?
First of all, anybody can write (or edit) on Wikipedia, using any terminology they want, without backing-up a single word of it with facts. What that Wikipedia article is referring to with the term “subsidy” is the tax breaks and incentives that every other company in this nation gets… I’ve already explained that… and you’re more than welcome to find actual real proof that I’m wrong. When you do find proof that American oil companies receive “hand-out” tax-payer dollars (like so-called “green” energy companies do), post it and I’ll admit I’m the fool.
Worldometers has to be a joke, right? C’mon, 40 years? How can anyone claim 40, 100, 1000 or even 60,000 years when no one knows how much oil there is? The fact is we have no idea how much oil is under ground… how could we? Does someone have X-Ray vision? Good lord man, we don’t even know how the stuff is created, or at what rate… it’s all unproven theory.
The BP disaster? You better do some more research and find out how much oil is being spilled into the Gulf of Mexico every day by Brazil alone! Just check with the people living on the southern Gulf coast of Texas… ask them how often oil washes up on their beaches. And speaking of Brazil… Our idiot fearless leader, Obama, just handed Brazil billions of taxpayer dollars to continue exploring for, drilling, pumping (and spilling) oil, and then promised them we’ll be their biggest customer no matter what the price… yet he points at American oil companies and calls them the “bad guys” and won’t let them touch known domestic oil deposits!! I guess it’s OK to PAY another country to spill oil into the Gulf… but it’s not OK to let American workers drill for oil in the Gulf because they might have an accident. I guess pollution only hurts the environment if America does it… but as long as we can PAY another country to do it it’ll be just fine. What a load of crap. Doesn’t that kind of crap raise red flags in your mind? How can it not? Or do you just prefer living blind to what’s going on around you?
The American people are being handed a plate of crap… then they smile as they pay for it, while gobbling it up with a free plastic spoon. You really are a fool if you buy into the BS from the “greenies” and their friends in government… really, you are.
First of all, anybody can write (or edit) on Wikipedia, using any terminology they want, without backing-up a single word of it with facts. What that Wikipedia article is referring to with the term “subsidy” is the tax breaks and incentives that every other company in this nation gets… I’ve already explained that… and you’re more than welcome to find actual real proof that I’m wrong. When you do find proof that American oil companies receive “hand-out” tax-payer dollars (like so-called “green” energy companies do), post it and I’ll admit I’m the fool.
Worldometers has to be a joke, right? C’mon, 40 years? How can anyone claim 40, 100, 1000 or even 60,000 years when no one knows how much oil there is? The fact is we have no idea how much oil is under ground… how could we? Does someone have X-Ray vision? Good lord man, we don’t even know how the stuff is created, or at what rate… it’s all unproven theory.
The BP disaster? You better do some more research and find out how much oil is being spilled into the Gulf of Mexico every day by Brazil alone! Just check with the people living on the southern Gulf coast of Texas… ask them how often oil washes up on their beaches. And speaking of Brazil… Our idiot fearless leader, Obama, just handed Brazil billions of taxpayer dollars to continue exploring for, drilling, pumping (and spilling) oil, and then promised them we’ll be their biggest customer no matter what the price… yet he points at American oil companies and calls them the “bad guys” and won’t let them touch known domestic oil deposits!! I guess it’s OK to PAY another country to spill oil into the Gulf… but it’s not OK to let American workers drill for oil in the Gulf because they might have an accident. I guess pollution only hurts the environment if America does it… but as long as we can PAY another country to do it it’ll be just fine. What a load of crap. Doesn’t that kind of crap raise red flags in your mind? How can it not? Or do you just prefer living blind to what’s going on around you?
The American people are being handed a plate of crap… then they smile as they pay for it, while gobbling it up with a free plastic spoon. You really are a fool if you buy into the BS from the “greenies” and their friends in government… really, you are.
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Un mother flucking subscribing. You disrespectful sods that can't take your off topic crap into another thread have trampled this one to death in your mad scramble for higher ground. I'll leave you to it.
