are climbers underpaid in the states?

[imagineero]

4 or 5 years ago I was dating a girl pretty seriously and she went off to do an MBA in NH. I thought long and hard about following her there, but I never got my head around getting a visa. I've been looking through the ads for climbers lately in the states again for no real reason, and I can't believe how low the pay rates are. Is this for real? Are qualified climbers with their own gear and a CDL really getting $15-$20/hr? Even less in some cases?

It just blows my mind. Unless the cost of living is waaaaaaay cheaper than it is in aus or something. I can only think that a dollar buys a lot more in the states than it does here if that's a half way decent wage. I know you guys get your gas cheaper, and I know take out food is a lot cheaper too, so maybe you get your rent, groceries etc cheaper than we do dollar for dollar and it makes up for it? Here in aus, an unqualified groundie makes $15/hr, and a semi qualified groundie makes $20. A good climber makes about $400~$500 a day. What gives?

Shaun

 

[2treeornot2tree]

I think treemanDan said it best when he said we are working for 1985 wages.

The economy is crap here, and there is tons of people that will do tree work for penny's on the dollar for what they should be charging.
There is a bigger company that says they won't lose a job. They undercut prices so much that there is no way they make money on some jobs. I bid a job last year that thought I bid low at $3800 for removing 8 trees and grinding 9 stumps. They did the job for $1200. Funny thing is I think its finally catching up to them because I see there trucks and chippers that aren't very old for sale in tree trader a lot.

 

[timberland ts]

I was making 25/hr with health insurance when i went full time on my own. Thats about as high as i know in this area. Contrct climbing is different. I usually got 50/75 per hr depending on the gear i brought.

You are right about prices there are two big guys around here that are allways low balling. Five companies bid a job last fall four of us were right around eight grand one guy came in at 3500. 29 trees half were 80' 24" pines that nothing could be dropped and the stumps had to be done. Guy was in there with 7 pieces of equipment 8 guys for 4 days on the trees and three on the stumps.

 

[mckeetree]

there is tons of people that will do tree work for penny's on the dollar for what they should be charging.

That is the bottom line problem here.

 

[AirBorneMutha]

I was making 25/hr with health insurance when i went full time on my own. Thats about as high as i know in this area. Contrct climbing is different. I usually got 50/75 per hr depending on the gear i brought.

You are right about prices there are two big guys around here that are allways low balling. Five companies bid a job last fall four of us were right around eight grand one guy came in at 3500. 29 trees half were 80' 24" pines that nothing could be dropped and the stumps had to be done. Guy was in there with 7 pieces of equipment 8 guys for 4 days on the trees and three on the stumps.

If tree work was a register trade like plumbing and electrical then maybe their would be a standard rate for climbers. I don't think tree co.s would be charging the price they do if they had to pay climbers top wages. If climbers were payed better than the business wouldn't be flooded with gypsy tree services. Anyone who has worked for a company and went on his own did it primarily for one reason, to make better money. Climbing day in and day out on a production level beats the hell out of ya, who wants to do that for $20hr when you can do it for triple the money and climb a couple day a week.

 

[timberland ts]

So true. Its been slow this winter but i make more working two days a week for my self then i did five for the company. Only down side is the honey do list gets bigger!

 

[jsdogs1]

My top guys are making between $80-90k per year
That's pretty good, no?

 

[beastmaster]

First tree(well it was a palm)I ever climbed back in 1978 or so I was paid 100.00. Now there are a hundred guys that would do it for 50.00 bucks. I know a union painter who makes 35.00 an hour, A backhoe operator who makes upwards of 50.00 an hour. Yet the average tree climber make 15 to 20 an hour.
My Wife makes close to 60,000.00 a year as a computer programer, I make maybe 35,000 some times more some times less. Plus have to maintain and update all my equipment.
I personally think there are a lot of greedy owner/operators out there. Then there is workmens comp. but I'm not so sure most would pay more even if they didn't pay out a lot for workers comp. Plus we have here in So. Calif. A large supply of illegal that'll work their ass off for 12.00 an hour and are as good as the Company's they work for want them to be.
There are so many people doing trees, anyone with a pick-up and a saw is a tree service. They have no overhead, and will do your tree, build a block wall fence, and mow your yard for almost nothing.
One of my neighbors just had his tree done. I offered to do it for a little more then the cost of my dump fees, he had a crew come in hat rack the tree and haul away the brush at a lower price. Defies logic.
I hate government involvement, but there should be some kind of professional requirement for tree work to weed out the chop and go guys. You have to ask your self, why would anyone chose this as a career. There is no future in it.
This is a dangerus profession, and proper tree care takes skill and knowledge, yet you can get paid better at Wal-Mart and gets benefits.

 

[stltreedr]

The Union foremen that work for me at the Utility are making about $27/hr in the St. Louis Metro area- Pay for my private foremen ranges from about $20-$30/ hr. A guy that climbs but doesn't run a crew would make $20-25 working for me. That being said, If I can't pay my guys well, I won't work; and I miss some contracts because they won't allow for me to pay a decent wage.

The St. Louis area has a pretty low cost of living, especially when comparing to the east and west coast. I could only imagine that east coast workers of the same caliber are going to have to make more.

Come on out to the states for a visit, you'd probably like it. I'm sure somebody on AS would take you out for a beer.

 

[crae10]

If you could go back?

I dont want to start another thread but for anyone visiting this one if you could go back knowing what our pay was going to be would you choose a different route and do something different? And is it worth trying to start your own professional company these days?

 

[timberland ts]

I dont regret it at all. When i started up i had all my equipment paid for, had 20k of work lined up and some cash in the bank. Dont have caviar taste with a beer budget.

 

[treeclimber101]

I hear alot of guys #####ing about undercutting , do your job with quality for a fair price , and you will ride this out just fine .... I do zero advertising , zero ass kissing , do an estimate and leave the ball In there court . I never cold call , yet at the end of the week we did enough to pay ourselves and pay for the necessities of life . As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .

 

[mckeetree]

I hear alot of guys #####ing about undercutting , do your job with quality for a fair price , and you will ride this out just fine .... I do zero advertising , zero ass kissing , do an estimate and leave the ball In there court . I never cold call , yet at the end of the week we did enough to pay ourselves and pay for the necessities of life . As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .

No, the question is has ANYTHING you have EVER posted here made a lick of sense.

 

[treeclimber101]

No, the question is has ANYTHING you have EVER posted here made a lick of sense.

Why ? I guess your the kinda of guy who #####es and moans about competition as well . Seems like everything I say is bitter apple to you .... Whatever though we my as well be on different planets . So stay safe out there .

 

[beastmaster]

As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .

I know Im probably a little bias, but the climbers are the ones who bring in the money, crawl out to the ends of big trees, and climb up trees deemed to dangerous to stay. Groundsmen wouldn't have a job if not for the climbers.
I think a top of the line groundsmen (they're far and few between)who can help set up rigging, read the climber's mind and be one step ahead of him, can tie knots, and is just quick to figure things out and then does what has to be done, is worth as much as some climbers, but if he can do all that, he'd probably be foremen.
I know groundmen have a hard thankless job, but you don't meet a lot of professional groundsmen.
Anyway that is just my opinon, I'm sure a groundmen would feel different.

 

[Naked Arborist]

Yes and No but pay me mo' money...

I hear alot of guys #####ing about undercutting , do your job with quality for a fair price , and you will ride this out just fine .... I do zero advertising , zero ass kissing , do an estimate and leave the ball In there court . I never cold call , yet at the end of the week we did enough to pay ourselves and pay for the necessities of life . As far as treeclimbers are concerned , do they deserve more then a hard working ground guy ..... That's the question .

It's all relative when you work both. A tree company and a contract climber.

I'm right with Ed on 90% of that paragraph. Did we make the ends meet? Most weeks yes, but not all. Do we deserve more pay? YES and No. It all depends on the QUALITY of the worker and his skill set. I supply everything I need to contract climb and have more than needed. Does the truck(s), chipper, trailers, tools, so on and so forth get my foot in the door for more pay? Let's hope so. I do hope the ten+ G's in saws and such supports that. I'm a big zero just like you when it comes to kiss ass, paid advertizing, no cold calls and I have very little wiggle room on the price. Most days I prefer to climb and cut for now. Still doing some start to finish "cherry picking" when I want to. Every climber has his limits for one reason or another so the pay does equal the investment, tools, maintenance, quality, time and risk. I know I'm in the top 30% so 30 is better than 40 here I do consider myself well paid or I just move on down the road to the next one, case closed. Besides all that I build a pretty mean ass saw, tot tot lol. I like to climb because it is a personal challenge for me. You can never ever make the same cut twice, cut down or trim the same exact tree in the same place, the same way ever again. Every single cut is unique. Could do twenty or thirty different things to make ends meet but I like the thinking mans rush that comes with the upper territory.

The best ground guy I've ever had/have was an accomplished, good and SAFE climber. He knows whats up, how to do and what needs to be done. It's amazing what can be done with basic stuff and two guys who know the top and bottom of tree work. Those days with a third or fourth good ground guy, some light hearted ball busting are just magic, profitable and a lot of fun.

 

[mckeetree]

I dont want to start another thread but for anyone visiting this one if you could go back knowing what our pay was going to be would you choose a different route and do something different? And is it worth trying to start your own professional company these days?

If I knew 27 years ago when I went into business for myself what I know now I wouldn't have touched the tree business with a ten foot pole.

 

[Damie236]

Here in Barbados it's the same way with a whole lot of under cutting but if you're dedicated, have a passion and willing to learn and improve on your skills you'll come out on top. That being said I'm sure there is a whole lot of competition out there but I'm willing to bet that 80 percent of this competition isn't really good competition. Professionalism and quality of work is key to landing future jobs. I rate myself as a top quality climber/manager so are my groundies so I charge to suit me and my men's worth. Good work deserves and should equal good pay!! Main thing is you need to stand out from the cowboys.

 

[slice'N'dice'M]

Damn straight !

If tree work was a register trade like plumbing and electrical then maybe their would be a standard rate for climbers. I don't think tree co.s would be charging the price they do if they had to pay climbers top wages. If climbers were payed better than the business wouldn't be flooded with gypsy tree services. Anyone who has worked for a company and went on his own did it primarily for one reason, to make better money. Climbing day in and day out on a production level beats the hell out of ya, who wants to do that for $20hr when you can do it for triple the money and climb a couple day a week.

Smashing big removals five days out of the week for a $600-$700 pay check gets old quick. I make that in a day now. Although winters are scary. I wish I was making $600-$700 a week now! AirBornMutha Climbs Anotha!

 

[highlife]

Shaun, check out the "the daily rate in the southeast" post as well as hourly v.s salary or maybe you have and it was the catalyst for this post. I was seriously thinking of moving to AU. It was heartbreaking to find out what the companies were offering here in the south. I was getting paid the same running a landscape crew sitting on a zero turn mower all day as to what most were offering to do hazardous removals. It took me a couple of days of phone calls, a little creativity and now I'm getting what I deserve to get paid. $25.oo to climb some 30-40 an hour as a sub. If the guy that i was working for was smart he would have paid me a fair wage instead of low wage slave. I just don't get how a climber with 2 years experience In AU or Canada starts at 25.oo- 30.00 and here in the south 15.