bandSaw mill trouble shooting!

[FJH]

Ok guys I have done everything I can think of And am having very little luck!
A bit better but The blade is consistantly diving into the log!I got two decent passes in then it started diving !the blade is set perfectly the roller guides tooEvrything is set to 0 so I guess i will have to try somone else for sharpening and see if that helps!
Are there any sets you guys have tryed to address diving only??

 

[redprospector]

I think you said you were cutting 24" Fir (I assume it's Douglas).
It depends if the wood is green or not, but I usually set mine at about 25 thou. for that size Fir. You shouldnt use more than a 10* hook in fir, and your gullet needs to be full depth, I'm just guessing on your brand of blades but probably about 5/16".
If the sawdust is packing on the log, increase your set a couple thou.
If a lot of sawdust is staying on the log, but is loose decrease your set a couple thou.
The size of your logs will dictate the set.

Andy

 

[mountainlake]

Fred Are the teeth of the blade protruding out in front of the band wheels far enough? Maybe to close and taking some of the set out after a few cuts. Sharpened blades would be worse being a little thinner. Also check for anything rubbing on the blade. Steve

 

[infomet]

Are you checking the blade level against the plane of the bed? If a front carriage wheel bearing were bad it could lower the front of the blade??

 

[FJH]

I 'm not sure yet But i have possibly found my problem I found I was having wander problems after reseting EVERYTHING including the above mentioned and packing idler bearing.
My problem may have been The blade back up bearing its working good with a new blade now , just got to try the resharpes I'll let you guys know!

Thanx for the input you guys!

 

[redprospector]

I hope you get it figured out, I know how frusterating it can be figuring out these kind of problems.

Andy

 

[mountainlake]

Fred
Do you have that mill cutting straight yet or are you on vacation? Steve

 

[FJH]

Sort of! Back to cutting straight with new blades!I have yet to try the sharpes as I needed perfect wood!
I'll post when i get at them re sharpes!
also I took some rpm shots on the wheels again today And i'm only getting 650 RPM on the wheels With a 23 inch wheel that puts me a way below what the blade speed needs to be!I think i need to make the drive pulley smaller in order to get more speed!Bascicly the horse power is not a problem the tractor will drive the pump as fast as it needs to go but at full open 650 is not enough.
I can open the rpms up on the tractor but loose my fuel economy I'm 1200 rpm on the tractor right now if I jump it to 1500 it will cut faster but the fuel economy sucks!you don't need much horse power to cut, it moves along effortlessly to cut.But have to move slowly thru wide cuts!
What do you guys think on this?

 

[redprospector]

If you have enough power to drive it, I'd go down on the pulley size. 650 RPM sounds pretty low. I'm sure there is a difference in our wheel sizes, but Mine turns 925 RPM.

Andy

 

[FJH]

Andy I talked with Tim Cook on this and he sets their saws like this!

First thing the Roller Guides must hold the blade straight away, never leading up or down. ( this could be a change from previous writings, but I have done much experimenting and have proved the guides must direct the blade straight away. Just like aiming a gun to shoot. to direct the bullet it must be aimed in the wright direction to hit the intended target. In sawmills the intended target is straight away.

Second question. I am speaking of from a square position from the log bunks to the wheels. I want the wheels to tilt forward at the top towards the log 1/8 of an inch. Because of the variance of measuring I will say 1/16 to 1/8. But on our mills I perfer 1/8.

If you think your wheels are square Now, then measure to the guard and write down the measurement from the top and the bottom. then move them forward at the top toward the log to have a difference of 1/8 from top to bottom.

Here is the bottom line. if your blades is flat and the guides are straight away, and the blade rises in the cut you need to move the wheels forward at the top towards the log. I would not move the wheels untill I knew the blades are flat.
The blades will saw to the least path of resistance. we need this to be straight away.

Remember : the way to get the same results is to repeat the same thing over again.



Would you agree or dis agree with his thoughts I beleive its worth tring Only a couple of wavy cuts away from perfection! :jester:

 

[redprospector]

Andy I talked with Tim Cook on this and he sets their saws like this!

First thing the Roller Guides must hold the blade straight away, never leading up or down. ( this could be a change from previous writings, but I have done much experimenting and have proved the guides must direct the blade straight away. Just like aiming a gun to shoot. to direct the bullet it must be aimed in the wright direction to hit the intended target. In sawmills the intended target is straight away.

Second question. I am speaking of from a square position from the log bunks to the wheels. I want the wheels to tilt forward at the top towards the log 1/8 of an inch. Because of the variance of measuring I will say 1/16 to 1/8. But on our mills I perfer 1/8.

If you think your wheels are square Now, then measure to the guard and write down the measurement from the top and the bottom. then move them forward at the top toward the log to have a difference of 1/8 from top to bottom.

Here is the bottom line. if your blades is flat and the guides are straight away, and the blade rises in the cut you need to move the wheels forward at the top towards the log. I would not move the wheels untill I knew the blades are flat.
The blades will saw to the least path of resistance. we need this to be straight away.

Remember : the way to get the same results is to repeat the same thing over again.



Would you agree or dis agree with his thoughts I beleive its worth tring Only a couple of wavy cuts away from perfection! :jester:

Fred,
When trouble shooting a band mill, guys like Tim are your most valuable resorce. They make their living building and developing these machines.
To answer your question, yes I agree. The guides are exactly that, guides. But they depend on a true blade. I have never delt with the flatness in the blade backs, but I read the article Tim wrote in the last catalog they sent, and it makes sense. When I get back to sawing, I'll have to send them a few blades and see if it makes a difference.

Andy

 

[FJH]

yup for sure !I'm going to try his set this week end I HOPE! I've finished the cedar 2 x 10s that I was sawing And will be back at 1x6 next would like that to come out straight too so i will chuck it up and reset as tim has discribed and give it a go!if i does't work i will reset to my curent set!Square to the deck parralel to the deck!

 

[FJH]

Well setter up to the Cooks set and all seems much better with (new) Blades
Will try The re sharpes tomorrow !I find the blade tends to limb the first 4 inches aprox 32 of an inch then finds the sweet spot Any fixes for this ?

 

[infomet]

Increase tension?
How are you measuring tension?

Tilt guide rollers down VERY slightly?
Is the blade against the shoulders of the rollers before starting the cut?

 

[FJH]

Increase tension?
How are you measuring tension?

Tilt guide rollers down VERY slightly?
Is the blade against the shoulders of the rollers before starting the cut?

>>tention
I don't measure tention (Wish I could)The tentioner has a huge Truck draglink spring behind it!I tighten till it stops and back off 1/4 turn!Standard coarse thread on the adjuster!

>>Is the blade against the shoulders of the rollers before starting the cut? YES always!

>>Tilt guide rollers down VERY slightly
Was going to try that next!But Waiting to hear back from Tim cook on that!

I also cranked up the rpms on the pto !Havent took wheel speed yet but its running a whole lot faster!The down side to this is it's heating the oil too much and have to shut down after four hours.Bottom line on this situation is ,I have to reduce the pulley size on the drive wheel to get the speed up so I can run in low gear pto.I'm running 11.75 pulley on there now!My next step down is 8.75 I'm going to order this up and try it the pulley is 40.00 bucks worth a shot I think!
Its sawing much better Aside from the 1/32 ramp up! I did a stack of 6 ft long cedar fence slats maybe 35 peices 1 inch 5 1/2 boards with out a problem no wave anyway! 2 cants side by side.
till i get this lift resolved I don't want to try the resharpes!

 

[redprospector]

Fred,
I'm glad you're getting it all figured out.
I think talking to Tim is a smart move. I can make my old home made piece of crap cut pretty good, but when something isn't quite right I spend hours just looking, and scratching my head. Tim really knows what makes these saws tick and can steer you in the right direction.
Let us know what it takes to correct the little climb when you get it figured out. I'm taking notes.

Andy

 

[FJH]

My 1/32 rise may have been a contamination thing!As i was lifting the boards off the stack I cut last nite I found a nail stain.a nail not once but three pases worth! the blade is a bit dull at this point! I also noticed I had hit a nail with the previous blade as well so I am not touching a thing till i CHUCK up another log and give it a chance.

 

[FJH]

Hey Guys ! put a resharp on today and All is well Pretty much perfect cutting !No rise no dive Cutting 12 inch cants! the new blade took a dive When I got into the 24 inch peice of cedar I THINK because of tention in the wood I learned that I should put a wedge in the log after enteing it 6 inches or so,(Specially butt wood) It started binding on the blade As I cut causing it to dive in. I could see this on my preasure gauge and should have clued in !I'm still left with the blade speed issue which i hope to solve next week with an 8 3/4 pulley on the drive wheel instead of the 11 3/4 thats on there.That should up the speed a 1/3 dramaticly and be able to get some decent wheel speed @ low tractor rpms and still have some decent torque.
anyway ,I'll likly be asking more dumb questions as time goes on !Who knows i maybe able to help the other way around sumtime.


Thanx for your guys input.
Fred

 

[redprospector]

Glad you got her worked out Fred.
My Dad used to say that the only dumb question is one that you already know the answer too. I don't know too much, and I sure learned some on this thread.

Andy

 

[FJH]

Is anyone from this site lucky enough to be using a cooks mill . I would imagine the after service to be exceptional!
Tim has helped me a great deal over the past few months.I have the sharpening guy telling me this that and the other but He has no idea about what you run into whilst cutting !I find the tension in the wood to be the most frustrating!You can never tell when a log has tension it can look perfect and take off in a moments notice.

thanx again for listening

Fred