A wise man swings the smallest hammer needed for the job for his body will thank him later
Bar Length and Power
- Thread starter AmateurSawer
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Long term I think the pulling or withdrawing of the nails that has noticable consequences. But you didn't specify what sort of hammer.
I've got a selection for olders saws but no stihls, I did a really nice L77 bow last year and a guy bought it for his dad for for Christmas.
See easy bucking!
See easy bucking!
Lots of the contributors on this forum are professionals with daily saw use and the need of long bars on powerful saws to "get the job done". That is not me.
I am of the school mentioned by @KerfWatcher using narrow chains at high speeds making lots of smaller chips with a smaller yet powerful saw.
However, to keep up with larger saws, it requires a lighter "touch" so as not to overload the saw.
My classic Stihl 012 (45cc) has plenty of torque, doesn't "scream" as much as the MS200, but has no issues making piles of sawdust with a 16" 3/8 picco chain. There is a lot to be said about narrow chain at high speeds. A cut is a cut, regardless of the chain width. Note that I rarely encounter much over 24" in diameter to cut.
On another point, I think it is worth re-mentioning that a long bar/chain will stay sharper longer than a short bar/chain as there are more links/cutters in the long chain (yet take longer to sharpen). A 12" bar has typically 44 chain links, a 16" bar has typically 55 chain links. Half are cutting links. You can do the math, the 44 link chain has 22 cutting links, add 5 or 6 cutting links to compare with a 55 link chain, you have added 23%-27% to your number of cutting links. In theory, you can "guess-timate" that you will have to sharpen approx 25% less often with a 16" bar compared to a 12" bar (if you cut clean wood).
Plus you get the extra reach with marginal weight increase.
I use a Stihl MS500i. Though it can handle a 36" bar, I just use a 20" bar, because I just cut firewood, and I cannot lift anything my 20" bar won't buck. I also have a 25" bar but almost never use it. I would only use it to clear trails if a larger tree fell down across them.
Try to find a bow bar these days. I asked at my local shop and they were horrified. Bow bars got a bad rep due to people using them improperly. With a stinger and guards the bow bar is safer than a regular bar.
I noodle the large rounds (and split with a maul) to get them into pieces small enough to lift on to the splitter. Otherwise I'd have a lot of big rounds to get rid of.
research it a bit. it was one dingleberry running a bow saw without the guards and stopper. if you look at a photo of a new bow bar you will see guards on the bottom and top and at the tip of the bow you will see a stopper (prevents kickback). operating a bow bar without these is dangerous. what happened was one idiot ran one without the aforementioned parts and mangled himself pretty good. Unfortunately for the rest of the US he had enough money to get a good lawyer and sue the MFR of the bar. (Poulin or another maker can't remember now.) and the courts decided that since no where on the packaging did it state you had to have the guards and stopper in place that the MFR was at fault and it damn near bankrupted them. That's why you no longer see them.
I have a bow bar I use on a regular basis it is a rebuilt unit from a gentleman down south who rebuilds bow bars and sells them. he grind off the rails and then welds new rails of extra hardened steel and then cuts the channel true on a mill.
get one, your back will thank you at least mine does. and with all of the guards and stopper in palce your chance of injury is actually less than with a normal bar.
I might run them more but finding those guards is difficult!
I've refinished them by hand with a file amd its an all afternoon affair but an excellent workout.
I cut firewood to heat my home all winter long here in NW Illinois. I recently came upon an MS391 that had been rode hard and put away wet. With a new piston, it runs fine, but the bar, chain and sprocket were all toast. I refitted it with brand new Stihl 25 inch B, C, and sprocket, and, while Stihl's specs say that max bar length for a 391 is 20 inches, the Sthl 25 inch bar specs say it's suitable for a 391!? Go figure... Anyway, I had no need for another 20 inch saw, so I went with the 25 and a full skip chain. It's only for the rare occasions that I need a bar that long, and, if I go slow, I should have adequate power and bar oil output. For really big jobs, I have a Homie XL923 with a 31 inch bar, but that saw is a killer for me and my 66 year old body to run! I haven't much gas through the 391 yet, but it's a pleasure to run when I need it. O
I'm 70+ I run makita 64xx and 79xx units, bars vary from 20-32"-3/8 selected for the job at hand. For real big stuff Stilh 084, 42" and 56" bars .404( also for milling) - this assembly is a work out for me. I have the utmost respect for that 120cc wood slasher. ( there is a 20" bar for it also- just don't look right on it
) Got a little banged up late summer, still healing ( not saw related) so only got about 9 cord done.
) Got a little banged up late summer, still healing ( not saw related) so only got about 9 cord done.Cascadium
ArboristSite Lurker
What Valpen writes is true.In the pic above is two Makita 36volt saws (XCU02z). Without the 'safety button'/timeout.
I got them for $169 each (bare tool), I think the price increased to $199.
One has an 18" bar and other has the original 12" bar.
I bought the 2nd top-handle Makita XCU02z because I was afraid they'd discontinue the 02z or add their 'new' and infuriating safety/timeout button.
Then I put an 18" bar on the old xcu02z......and man what an improvement!
I cut with short bar then go deeper with the 18" bar.
Plus you can cut back & forth in an 'arc' to not engage too many teeth into the wood.
It doesn't take much thought to limit the chain to about the same number of teeth that the 12 incher pulls.
Depends also on what wood you have to cut, that's Alder in the pic, easy cutting.
Those are brush type motor with reduction gearing. The safety feature is like a battery circular saw not a chainsaw. I got one tool only off ebay. It has more pulling strength than the direct drive pulsed DC brushless ones. Bigger bore in the sprocket. Quite awkward to use compared to other top handles in my opinion.
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
I worked for the USFS my first summer out of high school in 1962 on a TSI crew (timber stand improvement) where we picked up the loose limbs and forest floor fuel and made stacks with the hearts of the pile covered with visqueen. That way the centers would be dry when the piles were burned in the winter. We had Mac 10s with half being straight bars and half being bow bars. The bow bars were for thinning the small trunked hard and softwoods and looked a lot like the one in the picture yet different. It had the tooth on the bar but no guard on top and had the centerline of the bow in line with the centerline of the saw and not offset downward like the one in the picture. It is my recollection it was longer too but not particularly heavy due to all the open space.
Being young we took the tooth off all the time to cut down large snags in the big crown fire burn we were working in. Nobody got hurt or even close to hurt. I ran it 5 days a week for a couple months and found it easy to use. With the tooth in place you could go very fast cutting brush and saplings while standing straight up with the dangerous part being the angled stob it left doing that. Even though I didn't have a car at the time I could see that stob going through the sidewall of a tire. later on, driving on a very narrow USFS two track through a dense sapling grove I had to quit and back up because when they cleared it they must have used a bow bar as there were all these angled stobs like sharks teeth sliding along my tires.
I don't remember any kickback and we cut some huge trees with them. The axes we used were much more dangerous. None of us had a complete leather covering on our steel toed boots after a couple weeks due to hitting them with the axes we kept razor sharp. Two shiny toes on your boots were the mark of real men in 1962 or so we rationalized the whacking we gave our boots.
never had any problems with bow bars when I was a kid, and have had none since I got my last bow bar, but there is always one idiot out there that ruins it for everybody. that or an idiot in the government that ruins it for everybody...look at gas cans for crying out loud.... how could the EPA scerw something as simple as a gas can up..... damned if they didn't though.
https://www.arboristsite.com/members/bow-master.148742/ You still out there bro? some folks interested in your products....
