Chain Binding ... not what you think!

[Thomas Venditto]

Hey Gents,
So I have a MS361 which runs like a champ and I never had a prob with it. I have a new bar chain and sprocket installed. It's the correct parts. Obtained all from Oregon. I have always run Semi-chisel chains. This time I bought a full chisel chain. I really like the performance, BUT here's the rub! The saw (seems to) cuts so quickly that the chain binds up, presumably with chips? I never had this issue with the semi-chisel chains.

For example, I'm currently working on a load of fresh cut red oak. The timbers range from 12" to 24" in dia.
I start my cut as usual. The saw does it's thing, cutting like crazy. Mind you, I'm not pushing it. Somewhere into the cut I feel the load increasing. I withdraw the bar and back off on the throttle and the chain comes to a abrupt halt.
I squeeze the throttle a bit and the chain begins to move under load. In about 10 seconds or so, it seems to free up and spin free again.

My dad bought bought the same chain for his Homelite 360 and has the same issue. We just finished a nice size maple blowdown and some of the timbers were 24" or more. The saw performed exceptional, but the chain kept binding.

The chains look wet(with oil).
When the saw is on the bench, the chain spins freely by hand.

Any thoughts appreciated,
TomJV

 

[Efisher26]

I know there's oil but is the bar hot?


-•------------------------------------------------------------


Just a home owner that likes the older better made machines

Craftsman 3.7 x2
Husqvarna 36

 

[Amp4027]

Crank up the oiler and maybe reduce your chisel angle 5-10 degress. Also, if you imagine a cross-section of the top of the chainbar, full chisel teeth pull it to the 10 & 2 o'clock direction (instead of 12 o'clock taking the brunt with semi-chisel) so chain tension and making sure your bar is cutting is straight has more to do with it - the Anti-vibe springs and handle have to be like 15deg off perpendicular for the bar to cut straight down when you have the saw weighted in the cut.

 

[Gypo Logger]

If I'm understanding the problem correctly, it sounds like bar groove is becoming impacted with sawdust, probably because of the new bar and chain.
Try running the chain a bit looser than normal and clean the bar groove with a hacksaw blade or putty knife.
I had the same problem with a 36" Cannon bar, until bar and chain married. It's a tolerance thing.

 

[Thomas Venditto]

I know there's oil but is the bar hot?


-•------------------------------------------------------------


Just a home owner that likes the older better made machines

Craftsman 3.7 x2
Husqvarna 36

Hot? There's no smoke coming from the kerf. I have a bit of black on the edge of the bar, but nothing like the Craigs List saws LOL.
TomJV

 

[Thomas Venditto]

Crank up the oiler and maybe reduce your chisel angle 5-10 degress. Also, if you imagine a cross-section of the top of the chainbar, full chisel teeth pull it to the 10 & 2 o'clock direction (instead of 12 o'clock taking the brunt with semi-chisel) so chain tension and making sure your bar is cutting is straight has more to do with it - the Anti-vibe springs and handle have to be like 15deg off perpendicular for the bar to cut straight down when you have the saw weighted in the cut.

"the Anti-vibe springs and handle have to be like 15deg off perpendicular"
I think I'm following you. Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying there's adjustment?
TomJV

 

[Thomas Venditto]

If I'm understanding the problem correctly, it sounds like bar groove is becoming impacted with sawdust, probably because of the new bar and chain.
Try running the chain a bit looser than normal and clean the bar groove with a hacksaw blade or putty knife.
I had the same problem with a 36" Cannon bar, until bar and chain married. It's a tolerance thing.

Yes, "impacted", I THINK. Truthfully, I (haven't, but) need to stop the saw immediately when it does this. Then pull the chain and scope out the bar like you suggested. I normally do this periodically and pull a puddy knive down the kerf. There's always some accumulation in there.
TomJV

 

[Amp4027]

"the Anti-vibe springs and handle have to be like 15deg off perpendicular"
I think I'm following you. Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying there's adjustment?
TomJV

Nah, no adjustment besides the awkward, unintuitive repositioning of your support hand and twist of your triggerhand. I found that once you find that exact spot to grab it either on the bend of the side handle, or finding the angle of your hammer-fist near the flywheel, you will get used to it. I kept cutting ) shaped cuts and had the chain binding in the kerf because of it - I found that not downloading the saw as much and using the dawg teeth on the front helped tremendously on a ms193T.
Here is an example: Notice the gap of the Orange to White plastic

The handle feels straight perpendicular to the ground, but the saw&bar itself are not. When you download the saw on the handle, the saw itself is actually cutting a few degrees off of straight up&down, like /| and will either bind the chain during the cut, or make a ) cut kerf. Fix is to reposition hands and pressure, or find a saw with stiffer AV springs (leading to sore hands after a day of work).

There also is like Gypo Logger said, the chain has to mate with the bar, esp if its a new bar. (Took about a half gal of gas with a new saw, along with a quick touchup w/ a file of any light burrs along the chain guide path)
If you're still using the old bar, just be sure the bar guides aren't too worn down already and the underteeth are hitting the oilomatic ramps and binding there - take a look at the chain that came with the saw, and see that the bottom rakers are not rounded off.

Just a home owner that likes the older better made machines

I see in your sig you like older, better made, saws - If you can find a old Craftsman 55cc Incredi-Pull around your area on Craigslist for a decent price (~$100 running), I'd scoop it up. Its a beast, and was only made for a few years. Only thing is it will always leak oil, but the saw was sold with its own hardcase.

 

[svk]

Sounds like my buddy's saw that had the wrong gauge of chain. It cuts like mad when the chain is aligned then when it pitches sideways the chain binds up.

Are you sure it it the right gauge of chain for the bar?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Sounds like my buddy's saw that had the wrong gauge of chain. It cuts like mad when the chain is aligned then when it pitches sideways the chain binds up.

Are you sure it it the right gauge of chain for the bar?

I was thinking the same thing, but it sounds like the op isn't experiencing any heat with b&c, but wondering also if clutch is slipping?

 

[Efisher26]

Nah, no adjustment besides the awkward, unintuitive repositioning of your support hand and twist of your triggerhand. I found that once you find that exact spot to grab it either on the bend of the side handle, or finding the angle of your hammer-fist near the flywheel, you will get used to it. I kept cutting ) shaped cuts and had the chain binding in the kerf because of it - I found that not downloading the saw as much and using the dawg teeth on the front helped tremendously on a ms193T.
Here is an example: Notice the gap of the Orange to White plastic

The handle feels straight perpendicular to the ground, but the saw&bar itself are not. When you download the saw on the handle, the saw itself is actually cutting a few degrees off of straight up&down, like /| and will either bind the chain during the cut, or make a ) cut kerf. Fix is to reposition hands and pressure, or find a saw with stiffer AV springs (leading to sore hands after a day of work).

There also is like Gypo Logger said, the chain has to mate with the bar, esp if its a new bar. (Took about a half gal of gas with a new saw, along with a quick touchup w/ a file of any light burrs along the chain guide path)
If you're still using the old bar, just be sure the bar guides aren't too worn down already and the underteeth are hitting the oilomatic ramps and binding there - take a look at the chain that came with the saw, and see that the bottom rakers are not rounded off.


I see in your sig you like older, better made, saws - If you can find a old Craftsman 55cc Incredi-Pull around your area on Craigslist for a decent price (~$100 running), I'd scoop it up. Its a beast, and was only made for a few years. Only thing is it will always leak oil, but the saw was sold with its own hardcase.

Funny you say that, my brother has one that I just fixed up for him. Secondary spring in recoil broke... NLA. Modified so it still works on main spring. Replaced oil line, rebuilt carb, ran great for me in testing. I gave it back and he can't get to run. Seemed like enough power, I would have modded the muffler if it was mine. When reading about them there was a recall on the handle on how the plastic they used broke easily.

 

[RandyMac]

You need more saw for that chain. File it back to raise the depth guides.

 

[Bwildered]

It's a comon thing with full chisel chain in our green HWDs, you just need to not back off WOT until the bar is out of the cut, if the chain stalls in the cut & the bar is withdrawn the chips will pack under the chain on the backside of the bar near the tip every time.
Fankski

 

[Amp4027]

When reading about them there was a recall on the handle on how the plastic they used broke easily.

Need to hear more about this... what models were affected?

Really, Stihl dropped the ball with the antivibe springs on the 193T's, they are simply too soft/bendy. I mean when you are in a tree, do you really want anti-vibe? or do you want a saw that will cut straight and not turn when you put some pressure on it? I can understand for a rear-handle to have soft bendy springs, but a tophandle? No way.... When you put some pressure on the saw in the cut a bit past 'letting it weigh itself on the bar', the handle touches the case and actually makes the anti-vibe pretty much null. I guess that was to keep people from pushing it too hard in the cut, but I found it just made the sweetspot smaller and more difficult to work with.

 

[Efisher26]

I found a page last month where the factory recall says who to contact about it, but I can't imagine it will get you anywhere nowadays.

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2006/m...lt-craftsman-chain-saws-breaking-handles-pose

-•------------------------------------------------------------


Just a home owner that likes the older better made machines

Craftsman 3.7 x2
Husqvarna 36

 

[Amp4027]

page last month where the factory recall says who to contact about it, but I can't imagine it will get you anywhere nowadays.

ahhh. the craftsman - I thought you meant the stihl.
Yea, I already heard about that. Got the upgraded handle a few years back, but still wrapped metal wire around and looped it under the screwheads of the AV mounts just in case. Doesn't detract from how beast the thing is though

 

[Full Chisel]

I have run into that issue before, usually when cutting green, wet wood. I always make it a point to piss rev the saw a few times between cuts. This helps clear the bar rail and puts a good film of oil on the chain.

 

[scheffa]

We experience a similar thing here cutting narrow leaf peppermints, when blocking up the bottom third of the tree, the bark fibres seem to expand and try and jam the chain