citrus tree identification, pruning?

[Lynn5335]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here, looking for information.....I tried performing a search, but couldn't find anything. I was hoping somone could help! About 8 years ago, I was given a tree...about 4 feet high, in a pot. The woman said she didn't want it, and was waiting for it to die. Of course, me being the softie that I am, couldn't bear to have a perfectly good tree just be dried up and killed for no good reason, so I took it home. It has since grown to about 8 ft. high, it is definately a citrus variety, and unfortunately since we live in the notheast, it is permanantly relagated to a pot.
I would like to know...
A. What variety citrus it is...it has thorns (some quite large!) and if you crush a leaf in your hand, it smells very "lemony". The leaves are sort of a double leaf, with a small part, then a large leaf at the end.
B. Can it remain in a pot forever? it is so large now, and in the summer I put it outside (which it seems to be the happiest, and grows the best) It really can't get much bigger, as it is hard to get it in and out now..can it be pruned?
C. It has never bloomed..What is the reason for that?
Thanks for any info anyone can give!

 

[ByrdzEye]

My first post also, but I can't resist...

A. Most likely a grapefruit tree.

B. If size is controlled through pruning, can remain potted indef. I have one older than 25 years old now, only about 3 ft tall.
Heres how I prune:
Between the time you bring it inside in the fall and set it out in the spring, do not allow any new growth. Break it off as soon as it appears. This growth would only be lanky anyway and reduces the growth spurt you want to set it up for when set out in the spring.
The appearance of sprouts will increase until the time you're ready to set it out in the spring. Keep pinching.
When ready to set out, (are you ready for this? it sounds drastic) do a final pinch, cut off all of the leaves and prune to whatever shape you want. (But only if you have overwintered your tree in this fashion.) You really can't prune it too much.
Set it out in full sun and inside of 2 weeks the tree will be covered with new growth sprouts.
To keep the tree's size in check, break the sprouts off after 2 to four leaves, removing more from the top to allow light to the lower branches. The lower would die if you didn't, you probably know that by now.

C. Sorry, the only place I've seen a grapefruit tree bloom (and bear fruit) this far north is in a vary large greenhouse. Large is the key word. Blooms and fruit occur on vigorous growth. If you are pruning as i suggest, you will certainly never have blossoms.

I'll stop there. Lots more I can share if interested.

 

[Lynn5335]

Take ALL the leaves off?!?! Are you sure? Boy, that DOES sound drastic! It really is a beautiful tree...Thank you so much for posting a reply! I do want to keep it and take care of it properly. The non-blooming and bearing fruit doesn't bother me, I just couldn't figure out what it was. If it had bloomed and grown a fruit, I maybe could have identified it. Do they usually have such large spikes on the branches? Some of them are at least 3" long! One site I could find (at a citrus growers site) said that if there are large spikes, you arn't pruning correctly. The Large spikes only grow on the sucker branches......It really is so much happier when it can be outside...it really flourishes! Goes kind of dormant inside during the winter monthes. What about fertilizing? The citrus site said that it is very important for citrus trees to have fertilizer..? What kind would you use, and how often? Well, thanks again for the reply.

 

[ByrdzEye]

Yes, it sounds drastic, but perfectly safe provided that you haven't allowed any new growth for a couple of months, I can't stress that enough. Your tree isn't really dormant when it not growing leaves, its storing food.
You may not have to or want to remove all the leaves. My tree is so compact and dense that if I didn't, the lower branches would not be able to compete and would certainly die. By doing so, you will end up with many more, but smaller branches, leaves and thorns and a much more attractive house plant for the winter months. Citrus trees are actually evergreen shrubs...and should be hedged accordingly. In fact, pruning of commercial groves is sometimes referred to as hedging. In the event of a hard freeze (in an orchard), treatment may be skelitonization or pruning back and defoliating.
Here's drastic...I repeat the same process towards the end of June/early July! The first time usually results in too much growth, remember, I'm trying to keep the plant down to size.
I fertilize each time I do this with miracle grow. If new growth appears slightly yellowish, maybe another application. Never in the winter.
Your tree doesn't need as much fertilizer as citrus trees growing in an orchard, in a frost free area and expected to bear fruit.
Still scared?

 

[Lynn5335]

No, not scared, I guess I have never really liked pruning off healthy growth...even though I might be told it is for the best. I really love this tree though, and I can't keep in indoors at its current rate of growth. You should have seen me trying to drag it in this fall...! It barely fit thru the door, and if I get a much bigger pot, I won't be able to lift it! Wheels won't work because there is a step out onto the porch. Another question...so I can take a tree that is 5' tall, and trim the branches back to a 3' tall tree? Should I do that all at once, or should I do it gradually over time, with multiple prunings? It IS kind of scraggily...usually, when I have brought it in for the winter, it starts dropping its leaves around mid-winter. It hasn't done that yet, and I don't see any new growth yet either...The tree will probably be silently screaming as it sees me heading towords it with pruners in hand! hehehehe!

 

[ByrdzEye]

I know what you mean about size. I sacrificed a 20 year old jade tree last fall. I just simply could not move it in anymore. Pot and plant weighed over 300 pounds. I had started a new plant a few years ago knowing it would happen though. Also have a catus just under 8 feet tall. Only an inch or so till it touches the ceiling. Still not sure what to do with that one yet.

Anyway, you could do it in stages. You could use the first year as a 'let me see what happens'. Prune generously, remove the leaves and you'll know. The experience will make much more confident the next time.

If the tree has branches decent enough to become the new framework under the three foot mark, I'd just wack it off, but take your time and enjoy, thats what it all about anyway.

Leaf drop. Usually, only leaves older than a year fall so I never have that problem.

Do I hear I silent scream?

 

[Lynn5335]

Yes, I'm sure the screaming is loud and clear!!! I pinched off the new growths yesterday (there wern't very many), and I am sure the tree knows what will be coming in the spring now. Thanks again for the info, and if you are still checking this board in the spring, I will let you know how it goes after the massacre!

 

[budroe69moni]

hey lynn,
sounds to me that your citrus tree was started from
a seed. they will grow but don't wait around for the
fruit. the big thorns are a classic example of this. check
to see if the tree has been grafted to a root stock, if not,
just enjoy the foliage and the fact that you saved a tree.
peace,
budroe
sunny south florida

 

[Lynn5335]

That is interesting...you mean a citrus tree planted from a seed will never have fruit? All the citrus trees in groves producing fruit have been grafted? I never knew that! I think mine was grown from a seed then...I don't see any graft area. It is a gorgeous tree though..I put little white lights on it and put it in the corner of the dining room...beautiful!

 

[budroe69moni]

all of the commercial citrus farms use grafted trees. all of the
citrus tree's that come into our nursery are also grafted. often
suckers start to grow out of the graft and if they are not trimmed off, they will take over the entire tree. they will actually suck the life out of the graft. i've got a myers lemon and a key lime tree in containers in pots and they are doing quite well. they make beautiful patio plants!!!!! enjoy!!!!

 

[ByrdzEye]

Lynn,
A citrus tree grown from seed can and will have fruit eventually, but will take much longer than a grafted tree. The biggest question will be the quality of the fruit. Most of the 'wild' orange trees growing in Florida have beautiful fruit but are totally unpalatable.

I bought a kumquat tree a couple of years ago with the intention of top-working (grafting) the grapefruit tree. Should end up with smaller leaves, no thorns and fruit! Sounds like a good idea? We'll see.

I just noticed you can include pictures on this board. Hmmm...

 

[Lynn5335]

But if you have a fruit from the grafted part of the tree, and you then plant the seed from the fruit...wouldn't the new tree have the genes (?) from the grafted tree, and grow just as well and have fruit just as tasty? (It has been a long time since I took biology!

 

[ByrdzEye]

Highly unlikely, especially with fruit trees, you have a better chance of winning the lottery.

The good qualities (genes) of the parent tree of the grapefuit where the seed came from are most likely submissive.

The thorns on your tree for example. The parent tree probably didn't have any. The gene that causes the plant to grow thorns is dominant.

Somewhere along the way the parent tree started as a seed also. The way new varieties are deveolped is someone crosses this with that, plants thousands of seeds, has thousands of trees, but only a few lucky ones (if any) with desired traits. The rest are destroyed. The good ones are propagated by grafting.

As far as I know, almost all commercially avaliable fruit trees are propagated asexually. Theres bound to be exceptions there but not with apples and oranges?

 

[Lynn5335]

O.K., I've done the deed...and I must say it looks pathetic! As I was carrying it outside, stripped of all its leaves, my daughter even commented " what happened to the tree?! I liked that tree!" I hope I haven't killed it..I've put my trust in you and we'll see what happens in a couple weeks!

 

[John Paul McMillin]

just wanted to add this , I was going to say the plant you had might be Poncirus trifoliata ( hardy orange) it will grow outside in zone 5 to 9. It has large thorns and is very lemony smelling. It has 3 leaflets per leaf with a winged petiole.

 

[Lynn5335]

Hi John, and thanks for the reply. I wish I knew how to post images here so I could just show you what the leaf looks like. What is a "petiole"? The leaves on this tree have a sort of triangular shaped leaf at the bottom (by the stem) and then after going it, the leaf comes back out into a large leaf shape with a point at the end. There are two deffinate leaf shapes on each leaf. There is a large thorn right by each leaf stem (and boy, are they sharp!) Are you saying that grapefruit tree leaves when crushed don't smell lemony? because these really do..makes you think of lemon pledge!

 

[Nickrosis]

Once again defining terms...

The petiole attaches the leaf to the stem. This gets more complicated when discussing compound leaves. I hope this diagram will help.

I put that picture in by saving it to one of my websites (in my case, I'm able to save it to a certain directory on the school network), then I click on "IMG" when I'm writing a post. I enter the address of the picture and it will display when you visit the post. You will see a tag in brackets appear - this is HTML. After a while, I've just gotten to typing in HTML fluently because it's easier for me, but I realize there's a steep learning curve. It has to be something you enjoy doing.

If you cannot or don't know how to save to a website, you can attach it by entering the address in the box below where you enter text. If you want to look for it, click browse to find the file (not necessarily a picture) and make it available for visitors. I attached the image as an example.

Nickrosis

 

[John Paul McMillin]

Hi Lynn , being from Delaware ive never seen a grapefruit tree so i cant say that you dont have one. You never stated where you are from so i dont know if it will be hardy to your area. I just wanted to make sure that you positively identified your tree before you do too much to it . Look up what i wrote to you in a book or on the internet and also look up grapefuit and see it you can ID it. If the petiole is winged it will have thin wings on each side of the petiole that attaches the leaf to the stem. Good Luck and let us know what you find out ok? John

 

[BigJim]

Poncirus trifoliata,commonly used as a rootstock when grafting citrus,whatever variety of citrus that was grafted onto it has died and the rootstock has continued to grow,which it will as its very hardy.Unedible fruit,nasty thorns, suggest you discard and purchase a healthy citrus tree from a nursery.