CLEARVIEW TREE
ArboristSite Operative
I need a second diesel truck and am considering a 98 3500 dually 2wd as a chip truck candidate. Anybody got any likes,and /or dislikes with dodges. Any info about cummins engines would be appreciated. Thanks
Dodge diesels
- Thread starter CLEARVIEW TREE
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MikE2
ArboristSite Lurker
IMO its not worth it unless it has the manual transmission. Also IMO...the 12 valve engine will be more reliable and get better milage, but the 24 valve will have more power. Especially more power above 2000 RPM's. Thats where the 12 valve just about dies at. With the 3.54 gears, 5 speed and a 12 valve its a little work getting the truck up to speed because the power drops off very quickly past 2000 RPM's, but if shifted there it goes in to the next gear at 1200 or so a little bit below its power band. Its not a big deal unless you're getting a lot of weight moving though. With the 24 valve it will pull much harder at RPM's higher then what the 12 valve can so its not so much of an issue there. Either way, its an excellent engine. I'd even say the best engine offered in a pick-up. Its one of the few engines that can tow a heavy load, lase 300,000 miles, and still do better then 20 MPG. I had a 95 2500 4x4 with a 5 speed and 3.54 gears that would get a consistant 25 MPG at 75 mph all day long. On a 93 I had with the little lower powered 5.9 Cummins I could get 26.5 with that in the same conditions. Never had any problems with either with the exception of an injector pump on the 95 at 190,000 miles.
The interiors on those trucks is crap and they fall apart. If you want a good work truck, I'd assume you could look past that though.
The interiors on those trucks is crap and they fall apart. If you want a good work truck, I'd assume you could look past that though.
I had an early 91 that blew up at 63K miles. A retainer on the accesory drive droke at idle so I sold it to a friend who put $4K in parts into it to get it running again.
Now I drive an early 98 12 valve with an auto, also called a torque reducer! This truck has 136K hard miles. I am off road in 4 wheel drive most every day checking cattle. I would NEVER buy a 12 valve with an auto trans. Is the truck you are looking at a 12v or a 24v?
Now I drive an early 98 12 valve with an auto, also called a torque reducer! This truck has 136K hard miles. I am off road in 4 wheel drive most every day checking cattle. I would NEVER buy a 12 valve with an auto trans. Is the truck you are looking at a 12v or a 24v?
MikE2
ArboristSite Lurker
yup. Thats the problem with the 12 valve and the auto. The engine makes all its power at an RPM where the transmission can't effectivley transfer it. By the time you get the RPM's up to where the transmision can transfer the torque, you are way out of the RPM range where the power is made at.
There is a night and day difference between identical trucks with the auto and the manual. It feels like literally double the power.
There is a night and day difference between identical trucks with the auto and the manual. It feels like literally double the power.
definitely go with a 12v... manual tranny is preferred but auto's out numbers manual something like 20 to 1.
stay away from 98.5 to 2002 24v. these have VP44 fuel injection pump problems. lift pump dies, taking out the $1,000+ VP44.
if you must have a late model cummins go with 2003 or newer.
low mileage 12v will sell for same as much newer models. best year depends on who you ask... 97 is the last full production year of 12v and had all the bugs worked out. 98 12v has the small doors and is desired by many.
it's easy to bomb 12v CTD to make 400+ HP with very little $$$. but too much power will kill the torque converter. my 97 CTD is headed for 400 HP soon. a triple disc torque converter needs to come first.
I'm burning 90%+ waste oils and getting 22+ mpg
stay away from 98.5 to 2002 24v. these have VP44 fuel injection pump problems. lift pump dies, taking out the $1,000+ VP44.
if you must have a late model cummins go with 2003 or newer.
low mileage 12v will sell for same as much newer models. best year depends on who you ask... 97 is the last full production year of 12v and had all the bugs worked out. 98 12v has the small doors and is desired by many.
it's easy to bomb 12v CTD to make 400+ HP with very little $$$. but too much power will kill the torque converter. my 97 CTD is headed for 400 HP soon. a triple disc torque converter needs to come first.
I'm burning 90%+ waste oils and getting 22+ mpg
CLEARVIEW TREE
ArboristSite Operative
Guys the 3500 dodge dually i looked at was an early 98 12 valve 2wd as a chip truck candidate. For a couple more grand(12k) a local dealer has a 95 ford f-800 with the cummins,6 speed, 2 spd rr, Cold A/C, Radio,76k, and a 16ft dumping flat bed. I may just by this heavier truck and mod the bed for a partial chip/dump and add a bed winch and a rear arch for loading logs as well. This truck would be a quantum leap over my sorry ars gas burning chip truck and be useful not only for chips, but rock, gravel, mulch, and logs. I've heard the f-800's with the cummins get around 13-14 mpg highway and like 12 loaded.
motoroilmccall
ArboristSite Guru
This will be a chip truck, you don't need a 3 ton truck for that. The 98 12V trucks with the Auto had a 180HP Bosch P7100 Inline Injection Pump, also called a P-Pump, and it is the best pump ever produced for its applications, ranging from Ag, to Medium Duty Trucks, to Marine Engines making over 400HP Stock, to the Dodge Pickups, Gensets, and so on. These pumps are the biggest allowed in DHRA Sled Pulling for most classes. While guys can run 2 CP3 Pumps (for common rail injection systems), they still can't make the power 1 P-Pump pushes. With a fuel plate alone you'll be well over 250HP in an auto truck, and close to 350HP with a stick (Manual trucks came equipped with the 913 pump, aka 215HP).
Being a 2wd your really going to uncomplicate things, the front ends of the 4wd Dodges are not made to hold the 1500lbs of the Cummins and its accessories. Track bars wear out in a year, ball joints are shot in 3, steering boxes might as well be made of play-doh, and wheel bearings in dirty conditions can fail in 6 months (Mine are 10 years old and no problems so far). The 2wd trucks did have a few troubles as well in the front end. Ball joints tend to be worn out, along with steering boxes and linkage.
As others have said, you can hot rod them, and they'll pull well to 4k rpm with a set of valve springs, and governor springs, and they'll do it cheap. A set of injectors, delivery valves, governor springs, and a turbo and you can make well over 500hp. Of course, then you need supporting mods like head studs, O-ringed head, and a $5K+ transmission.
If you end up buying it, first thing to do is take it to a GOOD tranny shop, and have them install a beefed up valve body, it'll really cut down on wear due to added line pressure. Next, call up Suncoast, HTS, ATS, or Dave Goerend, and get a new torque converter, with a low stall speed, somewhere around 89% efficiency. This will greatly improve throttle response, acceleration, and fuel mileage, not to mention the fact that you'll have a bulletproof trans god to about 400HP. Any more than that and your gonna have to start looking at billet shafts.
The old 12V's are some fun trucks if you like to turn wrenches. If not, they make excellent work machines due to longevity, power, and ease of maintenance.
Being a 2wd your really going to uncomplicate things, the front ends of the 4wd Dodges are not made to hold the 1500lbs of the Cummins and its accessories. Track bars wear out in a year, ball joints are shot in 3, steering boxes might as well be made of play-doh, and wheel bearings in dirty conditions can fail in 6 months (Mine are 10 years old and no problems so far). The 2wd trucks did have a few troubles as well in the front end. Ball joints tend to be worn out, along with steering boxes and linkage.
As others have said, you can hot rod them, and they'll pull well to 4k rpm with a set of valve springs, and governor springs, and they'll do it cheap. A set of injectors, delivery valves, governor springs, and a turbo and you can make well over 500hp. Of course, then you need supporting mods like head studs, O-ringed head, and a $5K+ transmission.
If you end up buying it, first thing to do is take it to a GOOD tranny shop, and have them install a beefed up valve body, it'll really cut down on wear due to added line pressure. Next, call up Suncoast, HTS, ATS, or Dave Goerend, and get a new torque converter, with a low stall speed, somewhere around 89% efficiency. This will greatly improve throttle response, acceleration, and fuel mileage, not to mention the fact that you'll have a bulletproof trans god to about 400HP. Any more than that and your gonna have to start looking at billet shafts.
The old 12V's are some fun trucks if you like to turn wrenches. If not, they make excellent work machines due to longevity, power, and ease of maintenance.
MikE2
ArboristSite Lurker
I'd go for the F800
CLEARVIEW TREE
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks to all
I appreciate all of your alls advice so far. Probably goin for the f-series with the cummins. However that 2wd man trans 3500 with the cummins is tempting though. You all know your trucks
opcorn:
I appreciate all of your alls advice so far. Probably goin for the f-series with the cummins. However that 2wd man trans 3500 with the cummins is tempting though. You all know your trucks
opcorn:
Ten_Bucks
ArboristSite Lurker
A '98 24V Cummins will most likely be the dreaded 53 block. If thats the case with this truck you're looking at, avoid it like the plague.
Scott
Scott
Suo Gan
ArboristSite Lurker
I have owned a 98 24 valve Cummins Dodge 4x4 since new. The truck has 145K on it now. As you will hear time and again, the motor is unstoppable, powerful, and maintenance free (as in just doing routine stuff). The suspension in the front is bad, bad, bad, though and is the Achilles heel of the unit. Be prepared to replace ball joints, track bars etc. If you are under a load on bad roads often, this will happen more frequently. There are suspension upgrades etc.
If I were you I would not buy a used 98 Dodge diesel (or any other ten year old diesel for that matter). The price of new/semi new trucks right now might dictate you go that way? The price of fuel should also be a real consideration for you. Fuel prices have dropped temporarily, but all sources say they will go above the $5 a gallon price of last summer. It makes a difference when you are paying $1-$2 a gallon more than a gas truck, I dont care how you break the mileage down.
In short I would probably steer clear of any 98 Dodge, unless it was exceptionally clean, and really cheap. The appeal of the motor overshadows the downfalls of the truck, don't get sucked into all the hype. I think that this is the case with all diesel trucks in general.
For instance my neihbor has a large fifth wheel he pulls two or three times a year. He insists that a diesel is the only way to go because of the longevity etc. of a diesel motor. He trades in his trucks every two years! Is this not defeating the purpose? I think he likes the sound and feel of a diesel truck, thats fine, but don't fool yourself. Besides the constant drone of that diesel can become pretty annoying anyway.
If you do opt to buy a diesel, make sure to change all your filters at regular intervals! This makes or breaks a diesel motor.
If I were you I would not buy a used 98 Dodge diesel (or any other ten year old diesel for that matter). The price of new/semi new trucks right now might dictate you go that way? The price of fuel should also be a real consideration for you. Fuel prices have dropped temporarily, but all sources say they will go above the $5 a gallon price of last summer. It makes a difference when you are paying $1-$2 a gallon more than a gas truck, I dont care how you break the mileage down.
In short I would probably steer clear of any 98 Dodge, unless it was exceptionally clean, and really cheap. The appeal of the motor overshadows the downfalls of the truck, don't get sucked into all the hype. I think that this is the case with all diesel trucks in general.
For instance my neihbor has a large fifth wheel he pulls two or three times a year. He insists that a diesel is the only way to go because of the longevity etc. of a diesel motor. He trades in his trucks every two years! Is this not defeating the purpose? I think he likes the sound and feel of a diesel truck, thats fine, but don't fool yourself. Besides the constant drone of that diesel can become pretty annoying anyway.
If you do opt to buy a diesel, make sure to change all your filters at regular intervals! This makes or breaks a diesel motor.
CLEARVIEW TREE
ArboristSite Operative
Hmm, diesel engines are quieter now than ever before. In fact recent tests conducted prove they are quieter than (most) of there gas counterparts! Common rail injection is the key!. I drove a new 2008 dodge 3500 4 door truck with the new 6.7 l cummins and it was unbelievably quiet. Amazing for that size truck with more torque and hp than the competition to boot!
too bad you didn't get the 98 12v version... night and day difference in reliability from 98 24v. how many VP44/lift pumps have you gone through?
ball joints on a 7,500lb 4x4 truck are put under severe service conditions and should be greased everytime oil is changed. unfortunately ball joints on late model come without great zerts. when ball joints go dry... game over...
years ago... recommendation was to service your grease nipples after each 4x4 session. and with every oil change.
by the way... 98 12v is considered one of the most desirable of all cummins diesels.
ball joints on a 7,500lb 4x4 truck are put under severe service conditions and should be greased everytime oil is changed. unfortunately ball joints on late model come without great zerts. when ball joints go dry... game over...
years ago... recommendation was to service your grease nipples after each 4x4 session. and with every oil change.
by the way... 98 12v is considered one of the most desirable of all cummins diesels.
Suo Gan
ArboristSite Lurker
Like I said the motor has been beautiful, its the truck that is the problem. I am not so sure that the 12 valve would be any better, and its heavier too. Anyway, people do all kinds of stuff, I saw a guy in the city with a pink Buick covered in leather. So buying an old worn out dodge truck is not all that strange. As for quiet diesels, you really pay for that quiet. See ya, SG
thejdman04
Addicted to ArboristSite
I wouldnt go w/a dodge auto. The drivetrain with cummins and a zf manual are solid, the rest o the truck electrical etc anc be troublesome.
