Dropping Standing Dead Stuff

[Chris-PA]

I was cutting with my Dad today up in his woods, and I decided to take down a standing dead red oak. It was about 32" and had no upper story branches at all. I was using my Mac with a 24" bar and my new square ground chain. I marked the cuts with my hatchet (training wheels - I'm trying to improve my cut accuracy), and made a nice face cut - for a change. Then I did the back cut, and got that level for a change. I put in two wedges - the outer inch or so was punky so that made them a little less effective. But the back cut was getting really close, I drove the wedges in further and nothing was happening. Eventually I decided to get the heck out of there, so I ran like a scared kid. Well, I walked off to give it some thought. As my Dad and were looking at it it just went over - fast. Right where I aimed it. My main mistake may have been that the step to the back cut was a little big - more like 3" than the 2" I wanted, but there just wasn't anything to pull it over with no branches. And I could have used a bigger wedge, as all I had were the small 6" pocket wedges.

But man I hate those things with no branches - it seems like every time I get into one I end up with it just sitting there laughing at me.

 

[stumpy75]

The problem I've seen with these kinds of trees is that there is not any weight left up top, so they don't go over like you think they would/should. Cut a little more of the hinge and maybe double the wedges(Drive one on top of the other), but don't expect them to drop like a "normal" tree.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Trees with no top call for a deeper face cut, get close to 1/2 diameter, and let gravity help you out more. Bigger wedges are also a good thing for bigger trees. I've learned the hard way, what looks simple is harder than most living trees.

 

[Patrick62]

according to Dent

You done good.

The only thing I do is try and make sure your back cut is level (you done that), atleast 2" above the face cut (you done that), and make sure it is reasonably parallel with the face cut.. Then tighten up the wedges and make sure you still have a couple inches of hinge wood that is the safety in this somewhat hazardous situation. When it starts to move, you do as well. Outta there!!

It sure can jack up your heart rate when you are dropping a stick that you don't know where or how it is going to work out! Always, read your stump and see what you were really achieving. How to hold the saw better, what happened, etc. From your description you could have placed that one anywhere in the circle. If there isn't enough lean to be seen then can be done that way, but the hinge can end up with HUGE forces against it. And a puff of wind and you get a barberchair....

You done good, grasshopper.

 

[RandyMac]

Why would you go two inches above the facecut?

 

[chucker]

Why would you go two inches above the facecut?

lol better than 2" below it!! lol cuz you now what will happen "IF".........

 

[RandyMac]

Stump shot is over rated.
Remember to look up, snags shed stuff.

 

[Whitespider]

I cut a lot of standing-dead... always tricky. Most of it is elm, a few oak... and if it's leaning, it's normally not leaning in the direction I want it to fall. Because of too many mishaps and close calls I've gone to rigging every one on a dead-head pulley, even if I have to string over 100 foot of cable to do so. The cable doesn't need to be placed real high on the tree, 10-12 feet will usually suffice. I put goodly amount of tension on the cable (come-a-long, winch, vehicle, etc.) before I start cutting, and then add even more after the face cut; the idea is to get it moving early in the direction I want it to fall... and keep it moving in that direction. Sometimes, if I think it's needed, I'll add a recovery strap to the end of the cable for the "bungee cord" effect. I want a sharp chain to make a fast back cut... the faster the better. If it's a real tricky situation I'll get some help, hook the cable to my truck (if I can), so the "help" can keep the line "pulling" on the tree all the way to the ground... near always the tree will fall right on top of the dead-head.

Right or wrong, I'm not much for using PPE, but I do put on the hardhat when I'm working under a standing-dead... they have a tendency to drop widow-makers when they start moving.

 

[Somesawguy]

I cut a lot of standing-dead... always tricky. Most of it is elm, a few oak... and if it's leaning, it's normally not leaning in the direction I want it to fall. Because of too many mishaps and close calls I've gone to rigging every one on a dead-head pulley, even if I have to string over 100 foot of cable to do so. The cable doesn't need to be placed real high on the tree, 10-12 feet will usually suffice. I put goodly amount of tension on the cable (come-a-long, winch, vehicle, etc.) before I start cutting, and then add even more after the face cut; the idea is to get it moving early in the direction I want it to fall... and keep it moving in that direction. Sometimes, if I think it's needed, I'll add a recovery strap to the end of the cable for the "bungee cord" effect. I want a sharp chain to make a fast back cut... the faster the better. If it's a real tricky situation I'll get some help, hook the cable to my truck (if I can), so the "help" can keep the line "pulling" on the tree all the way to the ground... near always the tree will fall right on top of the dead-head.

Right or wrong, I'm not much for using PPE, but I do put on the hardhat when I'm working under a standing-dead... they have a tendency to drop widow-makers when they start moving.

I preach hard hats now, after being nailed on the head with a dead branch a few years ago from a standing dead. I never saw it coming. :msp_scared:

Standing dead is pretty much all we cut, and they are a pain. Between rotted bark, and a lack of solid branches, it's hard to judge where they will go. Every time I drop one, I wish I had a winch, and about 200ft of cable on my truck.

 

[imagineero]

Randy Mac is steering you right mate....

As are the other posters. A standing stick doesn't have any favour, and the bigger in diameter it gets, the worse the situation becomes. Cut a deep face into it, half way or very slightly past halfway. Some guys refer to this as 'sawing lean into a tree'. With a notch just past half you may not even need to wedge if there's a slight favor.

Stump shot is overrated, and doubly so on standing sticks. With no weight on top it's hardly likely to sit back on the stump, and the higher you cut it in the back cut the harder you make the job. Put your back cut in level with your gunning cut, and combined with a deep notch you'll be knocking those sticks over without need of the back of an axe, while your buddies are blue in the face from wedging.


Shaun

 

[Chris-PA]

Why would you go two inches above the facecut?

Mainly just to keep it from kicking back. I've never had that happen, but don't want to either. In this case that extra meat likely held it up from dropping until it cracked.

This one was difficult for me to judge, as we were on a pretty good hill and the trunk had a bit of a curve to it. It was very well balanced anyway, but it made it deceptive. There was a clear lane to drop it in without knocking any snags off, and it didn't hit more than a couple of saplings.

A deeper face cut probably would have helped.

 

[Chris-PA]

Randy Mac is steering you right mate....

As are the other posters. A standing stick doesn't have any favour, and the bigger in diameter it gets, the worse the situation becomes. Cut a deep face into it, half way or very slightly past halfway. Some guys refer to this as 'sawing lean into a tree'. With a notch just past half you may not even need to wedge if there's a slight favor.

Stump shot is overrated, and doubly so on standing sticks. With no weight on top it's hardly likely to sit back on the stump, and the higher you cut it in the back cut the harder you make the job. Put your back cut in level with your gunning cut, and combined with a deep notch you'll be knocking those sticks over without need of the back of an axe, while your buddies are blue in the face from wedging.


Shaun

Thanks - I'll give that a shot next time. These darn dead sticks are most of what I cut.

 

[DFK]

Standing Dead

Almost everthing I cut is "Standing Dead Oak"
I started taking an axe and removing all of the "punk" on the outside of the cut area.
Now I use my saw to remove most of it. Finish up with the axe.
This way I can see just how much solid wood I have to work with.
Ran into that wedge in the punk wood thing several years back.

I also put a rope up in them. Unlike WhiteSpider I get my rope as high as possible.
Tye it off to a 3-ton come-a-long and redirect their fall.

David

 

[Laroo]

Just a question for RandyMac or Gologit or any other seasoned fallers, doesn't pulling a tree with a cable or chain increase the likelihood of a barberchair, I would think that the higher up you applied pressure the worse it would be. Most of my experience is with standing dead beetle killed lodgepole pine, with 30" dia being about the biggest. Just a question guys!!

 

[aaronbrown]

i droped three standing dead trees the other day all of them full of widow makers first two fell with out a problem third one on the other hand i made my face cut and when i made my back cut i left a decent hinge for safty tree started falling then hung up in another tree so i cut the rest of the hinge dang thing still wouldnt fall even with 10-15 mph winds plowing in the direction i wanted it to fall i ended up hooking a chain to the tree and draged the stump 20 feet before it finnaly fell

 

[NDtreehugger]

Most of the trees I cut are standing dead

I never trust a dead tree to do what I want it to.
I a use cable and chain then hook it to my bumper, if I can't hook to the bumper, I hook to another tree.
If thats not possible, times are tuff, as long as their are no wires or buildings I will fell it to the way it leans.
here are a few things I use to move the tree my way.

Dead trees I cut never get a wedge don't trust them.
I had a dead tree lean back on the wedge and as I pounded it in,
the tree snapped and fell back over the wedge. :msp_scared:

 

[Hedgerow]

This one had no lean to speak of... Didn't use the wedges either... Had a good breeze though...
I like large face cuts if the stick is good and solid, with little lean... Standing dead always makes me nervous. If They're solid, it's not too bad, but rotten??? Yuk!!!

 

[Hedgerow]

Mainly just to keep it from kicking back. I've never had that happen, but don't want to either. In this case that extra meat likely held it up from dropping until it cracked.

This one was difficult for me to judge, as we were on a pretty good hill and the trunk had a bit of a curve to it. It was very well balanced anyway, but it made it deceptive. There was a clear lane to drop it in without knocking any snags off, and it didn't hit more than a couple of saplings.

A deeper face cut probably would have helped.

Holding wood is a good thing... But what do you mean by "Kicking back"?

 

[dingeryote]

As the others have pointed out, face it deeper than normal, and forget stumpshot. Dead fibers don't flex much anyhow.

One thing I have noted is the need to thump any standing dead stem. Like you did with the hatchett.
A soft rotted out spot or hidden hollows will ruin your plans in a heartbeat when the thing blows out from the shifted vert. load.
Having a Bull line set but not tensioned much, will provide a micro second longer to GTFO if nothing else.
Sneak up on those things and look for them to have a plan to kill ya as most of 'em do.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Chris-PA]

Holding wood is a good thing... But what do you mean by "Kicking back"?

Sorry - my term for having the butt of the trunk slide backwards off the stump, what I guess is being referred to as stumpshot.

It does make sense to me that this should not be a huge issue with a dead stick like that.