E Classic 1400 - Getting Close

[applefarmer]

I got thinking about that thermostatic valve from CB. If the water is about 20 degrees cooler than the the unit says it is, then the valve is almost never going to be fully open. (170). My water at the HX is been consistently at 165, sometimes up to 169.

The valve doesn't care what the temp on the owb says it is, it only cares what the water going through it is. That seems kinda dumb to me.
Oh well.

That is what I was getting at. I think most people don't really have a clue what their actual water temp is they just go by what the unit says. I assumed you were told the different temps about the valve by your dealer and I just wondered if he was using what the read out said or "real" water temps. If the valve requires 170 and you are at 165 your losing flow to the hx if it is sending it back to the boiler, which could be a problem when you start heating your dhw and it gets colder outside. I would call central boiler direct and tell them what you are seeing as far as real water temps. If that is really sending back water at 165 you are losing heat at some point. I don't care how good foam insulation is (and I know it is good as it is in my house) the boiler losses a little heat just from being outside. That 165* water would do you better if it all went to your hx-house.

With that being said a 25* delta t is just about where you want to be, if you were losing flow to the hx via the valve the delta t would be higher. I guess if you like to play around a little let your boiler temp drop then see what your hx gives you for temp readings. The more I think about it, I really think I would talk to a tech at CB, that valve just doesn't make sence to me.

Oh and the concern about the insulation would be the slim chance of a fire.

 

[upsnake]

Well i think i have learning to do still haha. Second time since it has been running that i have either woke up to or come home to a 55 degree house. Haha

Fire was out again when i got home. All the wood was just charred and sitting in the firebox. Got started back up and it was up to temp in about an hour but still grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Didn't make fore a very happy wife when she got home. (she is understanding still, it will take some time to get things all figured out).

She is still just happy the house is not long 55-60 degrees all the time. haha

Oh and i ordered the plate HX today. Once i get that i can finalize the install.

 

[rob206]

Upsnake,
There is another site that has quite a few members that have E-Classics up and running. Don't know if it's okay to spell it out here, but if you google "E-classic paperclip" you will find it. I have the old style 5036 so I don't know the workings of the gassifiers, but from what I can tell, the paperclip keeps some sort of damper open slightly.

 

[jd6030]

I have e classic 2300 and use a paperclip on primary air solenoid any time it is above 20 degrees and currently using it know even being colder than that. I took it out for a few days and was having a lot of coals building up and would not burn them down so back to using paperclip it keeps coal bed so it does not take much air to get a good fire going again. Using paperclip I never had to light fire even when it is 80 degree outside.

 

[upsnake]

I am going to have to look into the paper clip thing. It went out twice today. My wife got it going at around 7 and i just got home at 1:30 and it was out again. All the wood just sitting in there. I am begining to think it would have been better to spend less money and get a reg CB instead of the e classic. If i wanted to babysit the thing all day i would have just put and insert in my house.

Oh well maybe this is the "learning to use it that everybody talks about" I hope it gets better. It has gone out 5 times now since the middle of last week. :bang:

 

[varna]

Upsnake,
not to be smart, but, what does your dealer say about it going out and how to fix it?
I do know what you are talking about a "learning" curve. On my Wood Doctor gasser, I was constantly going out and checking and kept thinking it was out when I got home from work. I would "swear" it was out, but about 2 minutes with the damper open and fan running would bring the coals back to life. Finally, after my wife told me to "leave that damn thing alone" did I realize that....that was the trick, after learning that, I just know when I need to check on it according to the weather.
On my Wood Doctor, there is a 1 hour timer that is wired into the fan circuit that is setable (one of the learning things) that must be used to keep the fire from going out during "light" loads (warmer weather) and/or if you are using "not so seasoned" wood (needs to come on more). My perticular application for me that works great is......every 30 minutes the damper opens and the fan runs for 3 minutes with nice dry wood. It keeps my fire from going out and I have never boiled over from overheat. You just insert "pins" into it to make it run as much or little as you need.

 

[tanker]

Upsnake,do yourself a favor and cut the insulation away from your pump motor.Insulate around the pump but leave the motor exposed.No heat loss on the water but pump motor will stay a lot cooler.Also just curious if all your ball valve are full flows? You will like the c.b.,we are on year6(I think) with a 5648 and love it.I originaly tied direct into the weil-mclain boiler in the basement but have since installed forced air in the whole house and divoced the c.b. from house boiler and running20-25 degrees less on the c.b. Scott

 

[upsnake]

Varna: I haven't talked to him yet. I need to call him the beginning of next week and ask about that and also ask about the water temp difference between the control panel and the actual water temp coming out the boiler. ~20 degrees cooler.

It was running good this morning, nice fire, only had steam coming out of the top of the chimney, until i accident lyturned the breaker off putting the breaker panel cover back on.Once i found i did that i had to relight the fire but it is going again.


Had to deal with another issue this morning, everytime the furnace fan would come on the AC was coming on haha. I think my orginal tstat is toast. :bang:


I have no doubt that i am going to like it, once i get it going to the point that i can trust there to be heat in the house when get home from work. haha.

I would look into the fan option, i am not sure if it does that or not.

Tanker: I will go out and do that as soon as i have feeling in my toes. 20 degree weather, and shorts and sandals don't mix to well. haha Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Steveguy]

upsnake, you are probably backfeeding the relay on the central A/C , causing the compressor to come on. Mine does this too. Nothing wrong with the thermostat, but you may need another control relay in the circuit. On mine I just turned off the 220 breaker for the A/C unit. The 24 volt control relay in the outdoor compressor unit still energizes, but it can't run. That will get you by until you make other changes. Steveguy

 

[upsnake]

For right now i turned the breaker off for the AC. And in the course of testing things, just unhooked the yellow line at my Tstat (for the ac).

I also have an issue where my gas furnace is not acting as the backup. If the owb goes out, since the owb tstat is still keeping the blower on the furnace is not able to tell the gas burner part to come one.

My father in law is going to fix that one for me. I didn't want to put the mental capacity into figuring that one. He is going to add another relay and 24 volt transformer to the furnace and do something. My eyes kinda glossed over when he was explaining it. Haha

 

[Steveguy]

Yeah, thats why I still turn off the breaker. I can figure it out, I just won't!!! Too lazy after the initial install. Wow, 3 years ago already!? I don't remember if I double checked to see if the gas backup will come on...maybe I should check. Some guys use an aquastat in the boiler loop and wire into the furnace, if the loop is hot it bypasses the burner in furnace, if the loop gets cold, the gas can fire.... one thermostat, one setting. I may do that sometime.

 

[upsnake]

So far today it has been going for 10 hours, and is about 3/4 full of wood so far. I have had the hour 70 all day, and it is currently 23 degrees.

I did go out and move the coals around and open up the exhaust hole a couple hours ago b/c the water temp started to drop.

Other than that is has been running in the gasifying stage every time it has needed to cycle.

It has been a good day with it today. Haha

It is supposed to go down to 11 tonight so. Cross my fingers.

 

[goosegunner]

I think your mixing valve would work better at the boiler instead of in the house. Go to ********** the forums/ The Boiler Room to learn about return temp protection. It will make your boiler perform better and also make it last longer.

gg

 

[upsnake]

Well i talked to CB today about the 20 degree temp difference i am having, and they had move open the firestar control and remove the thermocouple, then in a cup of hot water compare the results on the firestar to my thermometer.

The water was 185 on the thermometer and 205 on the controller.

To help eliminate any concerns about the thermometer. I calibrated it just before doing the test and it was spot on.

I emailed CB the results, so I will wait for their answer.

 

[Penguins87]

Interested to know how things are going. Do you have that E1400 figured all out?

 

[upsnake]

I am still waiting to hear back from the dealer on the control panel thing. But other than that it is running pretty good right now. I don't have it heating the water yet. I have the plate hx sitting on my counter, but want to get the control panel thing working first then will deal with the h20.

I had it go out on me the other night, but i somewhat expected it. I was playing with the tstat in the house to see how big of a temp swing i could have with out the fire going out. I had it 74 in the house then it dropped down to 64 for the night and i think it just idled too long. (at least for my current pulse settings).

It was not hard to restart in the morning. Couple pieces of paper and a blow torch and it was up and running again.

I think i might be over filling it, maybe, haha I had a lot of coals built up this morning. (~ 8 - 9 inches), enough that it was covering the air holes, so i didn't really feed it this morning. I threw a couple junk pieces of wood in, but the fire box was still about half full.

The longest i have let it go between loads is about 15 hours, and it still had wood in it at the point, but i wanted to go to bed and didn't think/ chance it making it through the night. Haha

But for the most part things are going pretty good.

 

[1grnlwn]

I am curious with "free heat" why would you even screw with evening setbacks? I had a heating contractor tell me that setbacks have little value after a few degrees. It takes more energy to warm everything back up than to just keep it to temp. What is the purpose of that temp valve ? My house will heat even with 120 deg water, the furnace just runs a little longer. Oh and I do realize that wood heat is not "free".

 

[upsnake]

68 is too hot to sleep in :sweat:

That really is what going to 64 is about. I find that much more comfortable sleeping temp than 68. haha

 

[1grnlwn]

I have just one word for you "Commando"

 

[upsnake]

Hahaha Nice.

History of sleep walking and commando don't really go that well together. Haha

In reality though as i read through the forums and see some of the temps that ppl keep their houses, just sounds painfully to me. I am all for a warm house, but in the summer anything over about 70 and i am looking to bring the temp down. Haha

So in the winter i don't want to create summer in the house.