Elm ?

[sb47]

It’s some kind of elm for sure. Chinese elm may be what it is. I have one in my yard that’s 45+ years old and it’s the same type tree. My dad planted it and Chinese elm sounds like something I herd him say. I’m setting it aside for later when it dry’s and I have time to mess with it. It was free, though I won’t be excepting any more of it. The driver had dumped it before I could inspect it. He said it was pecan but he was way off. I told him to not drop any more wood unless I inspect it first or he would be loading it back up.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Now this is a timely post... I just came in the house from splitting some elm, a standing-dead I felled and bucked on Saturday. It wasn't dead from disease, rather it had been "ringed" by the power company about a year ago. I was positive it was American Elm but... horribly stringy and very dark colored in the center 2/3's or so, darker than any elm I've ever come across. The bark was classic American Elm, even had the dark and creamy-white layers... but it ain't like any American Elm I've split before, the splitter had to tear its way the full length of the rounds. I split the limb wood last weekend and it wasn't any different than American Elm, but this main trunk is weird... I'm scratchin' my head a bit.

I've read that Siberian Elm will readily and naturally hybridize with Red Elm in the wild... Kind'a makes me wonder, but I'm not sure how to confirm without scientific evaluation. Probably won't be burning it this year, the main trunk was pretty wet... haf'ta see what it's like after it seasons good.

Experienced a few like this too. Most stood by themself or were an overstory tree. Seems I read the term "wood shake" to describe their 'toughness'. Twisting wind loads had caused it. Happens to street trees also where one side and the tops of the tree is exposed to the wind.

Elm, i like to get as dry as possible before trying to split anything off of it.

I've never cut or burned any Chinese (Lacebark) Elm. The rest of the Elms are fair game for this wood burner. There are other species I'd rather have but I don't complain unless I'm working with Elm while it's still green.

 

[1project2many]

Not an easy one...

Well, I've spent plenty of time on this one. Pictures can be viewed here: Elm pictures by misc_photos_01 - Photobucket

A couple worth noting:

In these photos, Elm 2 is the large tree I took down several years ago, Elm 1 is similar to many that I see around here, and the Siberian Elm is wood that I brought home this spring. Elm 1 was supposed to be a reference but even that has become a mystery. The Siberian Elm has been good enough to match up nicely with pictures and descriptions so I have some confidence in the ID.

I dug around the woodshed but I couldn't find any traces of bark from the big tree. I was pretty thorough about chipping it. I had huge piles of it though. It wasn't very thick and peeled off easily. Directly under the bark was a slippery, sticky layer and mushrooms started growing from that layer very soon after the wood was harvested. One photo shows the end view of a split and highlights the mild change in color from light to dark. Small rounds, I'd guess under 5", didn't have darker colored heartwood but all of the large pieces did. When I pulled that piece from the woodpile to photograph I also pulled a few similar sized pieces from other species. I'd say that piece was slightly lighter than similar sized Red Maple and heavier than a piece of Chalk Maple. It's nowhere near the Black Locust and much heavier than a few left over pieces of Butternut. So "medium density" may be more appropriate. Now, as to the burn characteristics I was thinking that I should look at the general climate where people say they like Elm. It's fairly damp here and I was wondering about how dry the wood can actually get. Last night I had a bed of coals in the stove so I threw the piece in after photographing. It started ok and burned a bit better than I'd remembered. But this wood has been down for at least 4 years and has seasoned in the shed for at least 18 months. This piece was exposed in the southern face in a shed designed to use convection to dry. Without a kiln I don't know if I could get it any drier.

Had I known there were so many species of Elm when I cut this tree I would have tried harder to ID it. I looked at a BTU chart, called an old timer who said "It's not AE. They're all dead." So I looked through a tree book, found a picture of similar looking bark, and said "that must be it."

As far as the rest of the pictures on the photobucket site, most of them are of the tree tagged as "Elm 1." The seeds aren't notched and they hang down in bundles from the ends of the branches. The leaves have many more serrations than AE and the bark seems to be less deeply furrowed. The tree doesn't have a Vee shaped profile even when it's not under the canopy. I can't say for sure that small tree is the same Elm as the large tree, but I do remember looking at the bark of those small ones and thinking it looked the same.

 

[haveawoody]

1project2many,

Elm2 i think is slipery elm, i've only ever cut one since they don't grow naturally in my area but seem to remember it having a distinct mild color difference about 1/2 way in and a slimey goo under the bark.

Elm1 is a bit of a mystery, never seen any elm have such a distinct pitch core and 3 different colors of wood.
Got to be a weird and wonderful elm hybrid or something similar to elm but not elm.
Maybe a young pecan would be my guess, really looks like elm though.

 

[Whitespider]

1project2many
I went to your Photobucket page and that picture of the seed is not from an elm tree.
Here is your seed picture...

And these are elm tree seeds...

 

[Whitespider]

Also, this picture you labeled as "elm 1" does not appear to be an elm leaf... it is a bit dry and withered which could make it look different... But I'd still bet it ain't from an elm.

 

[haveawoody]

KsWoodsMan,

Chinese elm makes box elder look good. LOL
Chinese elm stinks for 2 full years curing, burns about as well as box elder and smells bad when burning.
An added bonus is the sap of Chinese elm causes rashes and irritation to the skin of about 40% of people that handle it.

If you have an enemy with a woodstove it's a good thing to give them.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[haveawoody]

#1 It's not a pecan (my guess of wood).
I'm not familar with leaf and seed combo but i bet it gets a quick id.

 

[Whitespider]

By-the-way haveawoody,
The stuff I was splitting Friday night wasn't Rock Elm... I had mixed-up my trees. It wasn't an American Elm as I thought... after giving it a second look yesterday it was a positive ID Red Elm. I had dropped 4 trees last weekend, all within 20-yards of each other, and had mixed-up which was which in my head since then. Friday night I was splitting the worst pieces, the very wet base and the crotches... the very dark center was because of all the moisture, after the split surfaces had a chance to dry overnight that dark color is gone. Yesterday I finished splitting it, the straight and dryer trunk pieces split, and looked like classic Red Elm... and the bark had no creamy-white layers of the American Elm. It would have surprised me to find Rock Elm in my woodlot... it just ain't the "right" habitat... but not impossible. There are some rocky, limestone bluffs and hillsides down closer to the river where I've found it in the past.

 

[sachsmo]

Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year.
Chestnut's only good, they say,
If for long 'tis laid away.
But Ash new or Ash old
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last.
It is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E ' en the very flames are cold.
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown.
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke.
Apple wood will scent your room
With an incense like perfume.
Oaken logs, if dry and old.
Keep away the winter's cold.
But Ash wet or Ash dry
A king shall warm his slippers by.


Oaken logs, if dry and old,
Keep away the winter's cold
Poplar gives a bitter smoke
, Fills your eyes, and makes you choke
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould
, E'en the very flames are cold
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread -
Or so it is in Ireland said,
Applewood will scent the room,
Pearwood smells like flowers in bloom,
But Ashwood wet and Ashwood dry,
A King can warm his slippers by.


Beechwood logs burn bright and clear,
If the wood is kept a year
Store your Beech for Christmas-tide,
With new-cut holly laid aside
Chestnut's only good, they say
If for years it's stored away
Birch and Fir wood burn too fast,
Blaze too bright, and do not last
Flames from larch will shoot up high,
And dangerously the sparks will fly...
But Ashwood green,
And Ashwood brown
Are fit for Queen with golden crown.

 

[1project2many]

Posted by Haveawoody:

Elm2 i think is slipery elm, i've only ever cut one since they don't grow naturally in my area but seem to remember it having a distinct mild color difference about 1/2 way in and a slimey goo under the bark.

Elm1 is a bit of a mystery, never seen any elm have such a distinct pitch core and 3 different colors of wood.

Whoops! Should have mentioned that Elm 1 was cut a week ago. The outer dark band is just moisture. When dry it's only 2 colors and the inner core isn't so dark.

I originally voted for Slippery Elm for Elm 2 but was told by others that SE isn't anywhere near as stringy as what I had. Also, looking at cuts of SE on the 'net, the end cuts show large amounts of color. Not the case with this wood.

Whitespider, I'd love some suggestions. Leaf and seed came from same tree as log pictured. The trees reach about 6-8" round and die off, and when the bark is peeled back there are patterns just like the ones left by Elm Bark Beetle. I looked at pictures on the web for many hours yesterday. The leaf looks like Wych Elm. Wych Elm seeds don't have the notch at the bottom, either.

And Wytch Elm doesn't always grow into the traditional Vee. Right now I'm trying to find pictures of a young tree with similar bark to mine. There are a lot of known hybrids with W. Elm so it may be a long search. I just don't know of any other family of tree which has leaves with an uneven base.

I've seen Kennedy conspiracies with fewer plot twists.

 

[haveawoody]

Whitespider,

Done that myself a few times with elm.
Had a few different types all dead and a long day on the chain.
When done it was just a big pile with a few different wood types.

Red is pretty decent firewood, as good or better than ash when it's cured.

 

[haveawoody]

1project2many,

#2 sure sounds like slipery elm, could be as simple as persistant wet arerican though that allowed it to become goupy under the bark.

#3 you have id as siberian but from the chain cut and color i would have said Rock elm.
Chain cut look like a skill saw was used so the wood is very tough.

#1 if it's two color then that makes it a bit easier to id.
Not something I'm familiar with in my area so that might even help on the id.

This might help you.
Identify Hardwood Trees | Identify the Most Common Hardwoods

 

[KsWoodsMan]

KsWoodsMan,

Chinese elm makes box elder look good. LOL
Chinese elm stinks for 2 full years curing, burns about as well as box elder and smells bad when burning.
An added bonus is the sap of Chinese elm causes rashes and irritation to the skin of about 40% of people that handle it.

If you have an enemy with a woodstove it's a good thing to give them.:hmm3grin2orange:

Rashes - That's good to keep in mind. That will be one I'll tend to avoid for my use. Or stack where the wood thieves find it first. I usually reserve that spot for Tree of Heaven.
Box Elder - I've burned some. It wasn't impressive but it did keep the furnace from kicking on.

 

[1project2many]

The red wood #3 isn't Rock Elm. It's Garbage Elm. The bad saw cuts were from the homeowner who gave me the wood. I sharpened his saw for him before I left. Here at the house I cut that wood with a 120 volt chainsaw and it's like running an electric knife through hot butter. When it dries it's feather light. No way that's Rock Elm.

I grew up in the country in New England and I used to work for a guy that sold a lot of firewood. He was an oldtimer and generally knew the good woods to sell. I can ID several species of Maple and Oak, can tell Black Locust from Honey Locust, and can easily point out Ash, Beech, and Silver and Yellow Birch. But the not so good woods were just "Elm" or "Birch" or "Poplar." I didn't start learning things like White vs European Gray vs Paper Birch or Eastern Cottonwood vs Poplar until a few years ago. It's questions like this that Elm mystery help me improve my skills.

 

[haveawoody]

1project2many,

If you ran an electric through #3 like butter and it's as light as a feather then it can only be Black elm, common names are english or cork elm.
It looked like a tough chain cut on the end and not really red in the picture.
Guess a dull chain can make cuts look much different.

I'm about the same for wood id's.
Only two types of elm are common in my area so I'm for sure not the person to make an easy id for you.
I have cut Black, Chinese and slipery but rare to say the least for me to see them.
99.9% here are rock or american.

 

[haveawoody]

KsWoodsMan,

Perfect use for it LOL

I would have to say box elder isn't to bad a firewood also.
If you make it past the deisel smell cutting and curing then it's just a little worse than silver maple.

I would cut a silver maple over a box elder any day though since silver is an easy split, no smell, ok btu and fast cure.

 

[svk]

Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year.
Chestnut's only good, they say,
If for long 'tis laid away.
But Ash new or Ash old
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last.
It is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E ' en the very flames are cold.
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown.
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke.
Apple wood will scent your room
With an incense like perfume.
Oaken logs, if dry and old.
Keep away the winter's cold.
But Ash wet or Ash dry
A king shall warm his slippers by.


Oaken logs, if dry and old,
Keep away the winter's cold
Poplar gives a bitter smoke
, Fills your eyes, and makes you choke
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould
, E'en the very flames are cold
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread -
Or so it is in Ireland said,
Applewood will scent the room,
Pearwood smells like flowers in bloom,
But Ashwood wet and Ashwood dry,
A King can warm his slippers by.


Beechwood logs burn bright and clear,
If the wood is kept a year
Store your Beech for Christmas-tide,
With new-cut holly laid aside
Chestnut's only good, they say
If for years it's stored away
Birch and Fir wood burn too fast,
Blaze too bright, and do not last
Flames from larch will shoot up high,
And dangerously the sparks will fly...
But Ashwood green,
And Ashwood brown
Are fit for Queen with golden crown.

Nice!