Feeding 73 year old Willow/Beach Oaks

[turtlelearner]

I have two 90 foot 73 year old Beach/Willow Oaks that appear (and three arborists confirm) to be thriving (please see pics). I have no idea how deep the root system goes, but I do know that there appears to be a healthy root system just inches from the ground surface level. Even though the trees have survived the huge snow and tropical storms and the 2011 earthquake, they concern me because both have limbs that could do considerable damage to my house if they were to come down. I plan to have the deadwood removed and trees trimmed along the drip line, but my dilemma is over how best the feed them. I don’t mind the cost of feeding them, but I want to do it right the first time. Trouble is, I can’t get three arborists to agree on an approach. These are two divergent approaches I am hearing.
1) The 1st arborist suggested soil inject beneficial fungi + bacteria, plus micro-nutrients and yuccah extract into root zones for the purpose of improving fertility and root functions. He claimed the treatment would make the root system 10 times more robust than the current one. Later, he would apply horticultural oil. His charge of $1275 would cover root system treatment for the 2 x beach oaks + approximately 5 other trees.
2) The other two arborist suggested simply feeding the trees with a 20 -10-10 mix of nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus for approximately ¼ of the price.

Which feeding method do you suggest?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Why do you feel they need feeding? Sounds like they've done quite well on their own. I'm not a fan of fertilizers or treatments unless they address a specific problem the tree has. Definitely stay away from the 20-10-10, and the other guy is making some bold claims I have a hard time believing. Yet to see a 70 year old tree that didn't have a really good root system already.

 

[Zale]

Did any of the arborists suggest doing a soil test first?

 

[treeseer]

Did any of the arborists suggest doing a soil test first?

Good questions. if it aint broke...O and if you would like another estimate on pruning please pm me. I wrote the attached fwiw.
View attachment 305434View attachment 305435View attachment 305436

 

[Toronado3800]

Curious, were any of these guys ISA certified?

Getting the dead wood trimmed out properly is a good idea.
Having a soil test done is a good idea.

Doing some extra limb removal or thinning out from over your home is a decent idea.

Here are two parts of the same web site:

Department of Crop and Soil Environmental Sciences - Virginia Tech Soil Testing Lab | Virginia Tech

Fees and Forms | Department of Crop and Soil Environmental Sciences - Virginia Tech Soil Testing Lab | Virginia Tech

I bet the trees are doing ok but who knows, maybe constant mowing and bagging of the clippings have has changed your soil chemistry.

 

[B Harrison]

Well before you can advise anyone of a proper nutrition plan for anything you have to have a soil test.

That bacteria injection to me seems quite silly, but I didn't look at your trees, but if you say they are healthy why add treatments?
I would guess that the trees being healthy up until now means they are happy with the current conditions and like you have suggested could use a little canopy care. I would however be concerned if anyone is going to prune those trees for a 1/4 of $1250, I think I read that right. I would want to know an exact plan of action, methods, and clean up for that price as well as proof of insurance.

 

[turtlelearner]

Why do you feel they need feeding? Sounds like they've done quite well on their own. I'm not a fan of fertilizers or treatments unless they address a specific problem the tree has. Definitely stay away from the 20-10-10, and the other guy is making some bold claims I have a hard time believing. Yet to see a 70 year old tree that didn't have a really good root system already.

I am not exactly sure why I would need to feed them. I will tell you that when it rains, I routinely get small dead branchletts coming down and when we get a heavy storm with wind, it is not uncommon to see a larger branches coming down (4 - 5 inches at the base and 4 to 8 feet long). Do you think that is a problem?

 

[turtlelearner]

Did any of the arborists suggest doing a soil test first?

No, and I am not sure what type of soil testing you are referring to but I can tell that when I took soil samples in myself to test for the soils potential to accommodate grass the ph level was such that it was not conducive to growing grass. If fact the PH level was so low (on the acid side) that one person suggested I give up growing grass and let mother moss take her course. Another suggested it would take at least three years of fall and spring treatments (fertilizers) to get the ph level back up to where I could grow grass. Problem is the beach oaks provide soo much shade that any grass project would be challenged. . . . but at this point, I am not concerned about growing grass as much as doing what I can to minimize the risk of a falling limb or tree.

 

[turtlelearner]

Curious, were any of these guys ISA certified?

[[ Yes, all three were certified. The "Yucca extract" person I found in the yellow pages, very prominent in Northern Virginia. The other two "20-10-10 guys were certified and referred to me by other people who trusted their Judgement. I should tell you that one of them suggested I didn't really need to feed them as many of you are suggesting. ]]

Getting the dead wood trimmed out properly is a good idea. [[ agreed]]
Having a soil test done is a good idea.

[[I did the ph test about 5 years ago, do you suggest another one is needed?]]

Doing some extra limb removal or thinning out from over your home is a decent idea. [[agree]]

Here are two parts of the same web site:

Department of Crop and Soil Environmental Sciences - Virginia Tech Soil Testing Lab | Virginia Tech [[thanks, i'll look at this]]

Fees and Forms | Department of Crop and Soil Environmental Sciences - Virginia Tech Soil Testing Lab | Virginia Tech [[thanks, I'll look at this]]

I bet the trees are doing ok but who knows, maybe constant mowing and bagging of the clippings have has changed your soil chemistry.

[[I don't bag, but the grass doesn't grow in the area because of the shade and the ph level so clippings are neglible.]]

 

[turtlelearner]

Well before you can advise anyone of a proper nutrition plan for anything you have to have a soil test.

That bacteria injection to me seems quite silly, but I didn't look at your trees, but if you say they are healthy why add treatments?
I would guess that the trees being healthy up until now means they are happy with the current conditions and like you have suggested could use a little canopy care. I would however be concerned if anyone is going to prune those trees for a 1/4 of $1250, I think I read that right. I would want to know an exact plan of action, methods, and clean up for that price as well as proof of insurance.

[[Thanks for the good advice!!]]

 

[turtlelearner]

Good questions. if it aint broke...O and if you would like another estimate on pruning please pm me. I wrote the attached fwiw.
View attachment 305434View attachment 305435View attachment 305436

[[Thanks, I'll take a look at this]]

 

[Zale]

If your concern is the falling branches, have the trees pruned for deadwood. You can have different kinds of soil tests done. You can can get a basic N P K test or a more complicated (expensive) test done that determines how healthy your soil is by determining the levels of fungi, bacteria, nematodes etc. This test will then determine the type of program that is best for the trees. The product being applied is more a compost tea than a fertilizer.

 

[ATH]

No, and I am not sure what type of soil testing you are referring to but I can tell that when I took soil samples in myself to test for the soils potential to accommodate grass the ph level was such that it was not conducive to growing grass. If fact the PH level was so low (on the acid side) that one person suggested I give up growing grass and let mother moss take her course....

That pH is probably a good thing for the trees - especially the willow oak.

As others have said, I would not treat without a soil test. If none of the 3 you talked to even mentioned a soil test before treating, don't call any of them back...they just want your money and are not interested (or might I suggest, capable) of caring for your trees. Would you trust a doctor who writes the same prescription for every patient? That is what they are doing here. Would you trust a mechanic who quotes you a price without opening the hood? Again, same thing. I'd be most interested in the guy who said you don't need it. He was probably going to just do a low dose to appease your desire to have them fertilized.

If you do get a soil test, I can assure you that they will have fertilizer recommendations. If those are pretty low numbers they recommend, I'd personally forget it.

"Don't guess, soil test."

The fungus, bacteria, yucca, and all that brew-ha-ha might be beneficial in heavily disturbed soils, compacted soils, or the "dirt that is spread over new lawns and called soil" but if your soil hasn't seen any compaction or disturbance lately, it already has all of the organic stuff it needs.

Finally, can't tell from the picture: do you have mulch under the trees? 2-3" deep, and pulled away from the trunk NOT piled against it, and as wide of a area as you want to cover will do you more good in the long-run. That will increase the organic material better than $1200 of injected stuff. It will look better than moss too.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Kind of reminds me of the ole chemlawn/trugreen sales pitch... Come by and analyze your lawn, and they always find problems. One of their sales guys knocked on my door back in Colorado ajd told me how I could revitalize my old lawn, and get rid of all the weeds, and treat for the fungus I had..... I said really, I just laid the sod 6 months ago, HOA awarded me lawn of the month, see no signs of fungus, and I'll throw you a twenty if you can show me a weed. He went almost at a run down the street. I went and looked at a few of my neighbor's "lawn analysis cards" and lo and behold, they had the exact same problems I did!

 

[ATH]

Funny how everybody has the one problem that could be solved by the chemical you happen to have in your truck today (and yesterday, and tomorrow).