Felling notches

[Turkeyslayer]

Bore cutting veneer trees prevents defects such as splitting or pulling of the grain.

 

[2000ssm6]

Bore cutting veneer trees prevents defects such as splitting or pulling of the grain.

So notch the felling notch like the picture, do a bore cut through the middle, then start your standard back cut?

Also, how wide does the middle bore cut need to be, say the tree is 32".

Reason I ask is because I will be felling pines for a mill and want the least amount of grain pull. thanks

 

[Turkeyslayer]

I dont have that much experience with pine as I cut 90% hardwood so some one else might be more able to answer this question. But the rule of thumb for bore cutting is notch 1/4 the dia of the tree, then bore in an inch above the notch leaving about 1/10th of the trees dia for a hinge, then bore a back cut leaving about 1/4 of the trees dia for holding wood. Pull the bar out (possibly insert wedges depending on the lean and or weight of the top of the tree) then cut the "ears" off which is a small 1" deep cut at either end of the notch ( which prevents side scarring), then cut the holding wood 1 to 2 inches below the back cut. Over she goes!

Also around here many people will bore in the center of the notch to bore out some of the heartwood, then cut the "ears" and do a conventional back cut.

Here is a link to an good web site with much info http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/manual.html

And like I said I am sure there are many on here with much more experience that may be able to guide you better, but I hope this helps.

Edit: cut the "ears" off (or corner cut) after the notch and before the backcut. (for safety)

 

[056kid]

boaring is nice bit i find skillfull fan cutting and posting along with face gutting takes less time.


1. you gut the face at the same time as you are making your first face cut.
2. you can elimenate the boar by faning in and establishing a holding corner on one side of the tree while getting the wood that you dident get while face gutting. Then dog in on the other side and establish the other holding corner and fan till the tree is holding by two corners at the hinge and a post in the back. bring your saw arund back and fan one more time to kill the post and bye bye!


Or if the tree has any side lean you can just dutch it.....

 

[stihl sawing]

Sorry i haven't responded recently, Kinda had an emergency come up. I do appreciate all the responses. I have learned a lot from all your post. Still can't picture a bore cut yet, I've seen it done on video and know what you guys are talking about, but just ain't figured how it works yet. Is it because the heartwood is the toughest to let go. If so then i understand why it's done.

 

[TraditionalTool]

I have a question about the felling. I've seen pics of folks felling trees, and often they will just chuck the saw and run like crazy to get out of harms way.

What causes the butt to kick up, causing the danger?

Is it because the notch wasn't cut properly? Stress on the tree?

Some folks I've seen just stand there and the tree falls perfectly, but others just toss their saw down and get the heck outta Dodge...

In the diagrams posted in the original post, all of the trees are falling perfectly and looks to be no danger if one did exactly that when felling...but I know that the real world is not perfect...

Cheers,
TT

 

[valekbrothers]

I have a question about the felling. I've seen pics of folks felling trees, and often they will just chuck the saw and run like crazy to get out of harms way.

What causes the butt to kick up, causing the danger?

Is it because the notch wasn't cut properly? Stress on the tree?

Some folks I've seen just stand there and the tree falls perfectly, but others just toss their saw down and get the heck outta Dodge...

In the diagrams posted in the original post, all of the trees are falling perfectly and looks to be no danger if one did exactly that when felling...but I know that the real world is not perfect...

Cheers,
TT

From what I have seen, too many people do not cut the face big enough...
Most cut it at about 45°. When the face closes is when the tree is released from the stump. If your face is cut too small, the bulk of the tree is still too far in the air, leaving the potential for kickback.

I was taught your face should be between 70° and 90°.That way, when the face closes and releases the tree from the stump, the tree is basically lying on the ground already.......

Clear as mud?..................

 

[stihl sawing]

Well I found this and it pretty much shows you how.

Heavy Forward Leaners (The boring technique)



Begin by making a shallow notch (1/4 to 1/3 dia. of tree)

Next, holding the saw bar horizontal to the plane of the notch and at a slightly higher plane, the tree is bored out cutting back from the notch, leaving a good hinge and sufficient holding wood.

The same boring procedure is then performed on the other side of the tree, ensuring that the two boring cuts meet properly, and leaving a strap of holding wood.

Then the back strap is severed by a cut horizontal to the boring cut, one to two inches below the boring cut; the holding wood at the back severs and the tree falls, guided by the hinge.

 

[TraditionalTool]

From what I have seen, too many people do not cut the face big enough...
Most cut it at about 45°. When the face closes is when the tree is released from the stump. If your face is cut too small, the bulk of the tree is still too far in the air, leaving the potential for kickback.

I was taught your face should be between 70° and 90°.That way, when the face closes and releases the tree from the stump, the tree is basically lying on the ground already.......

Clear as mud?..................

Yeah, actually that is pretty clear when I visualize it. That is how the diagrams look in the original post.

Thanks, was mostly curious as I don't have a lot of experience in felling trees.

Cheers,
TT

 

[Cope]

From what I have seen, too many people do not cut the face big enough...
Most cut it at about 45°.

I agree. Except that I've seen many that weren't even close to 45°. As soon as the face closes control is lost.

 

[stihl sawing]

Also this one.

Felling Larger Trees with slight lean or with heavy tops.



The notch is made in the normal manner (1/3 dia. of tree).

Make corner cuts.

The number one cut is made as per the diagram, at the same height above the notch as a standard back cut.

The number two cut is made as per the diagram, at the same plane as cut number one.

The number three cut is made at the same plane as the former cuts, leaving the standard thickness of hinge.

 

[056kid]

I can tell you right now that alot of people will disagree with this but the open faced notch is a good candidate for kickback and all around just isent a good idea imo.


Hay I never got to cut in anything that was flat so i cut alot of humboldts and they usually arent more than 25 degrees unless a wider face it is called for. and when there arent any out of the norm aspects like vines, widow makers, trees that are intertwined, trees that have strange bends or "pistol grips" or trees that will be coming in contact with other trees. i usually just chill by the stump and watch gravity do its part.

 

[7oaks]

Here is a link to an good web site with much info http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/manual.html

TS...Thanks for the link. Who would ever think that OSHA would have something that is understandable and helpful?

 

[1953greg]

Sorry i haven't responded recently, Kinda had an emergency come up. I do appreciate all the responses. I have learned a lot from all your post. Still can't picture a bore cut yet, I've seen it done on video and know what you guys are talking about, but just ain't figured how it works yet. Is it because the heartwood is the toughest to let go. If so then i understand why it's done.

"Still can't picture a bore cut yet"

perhaps because the term "bore cut" can have 2 applications. one is parallel to the hinge and is used to decrease barber chair, the other is perpendicular and is used to cut the heart out (in the middle of the face) to prevent fiber pulling. mills dont like fiber pull.

 

[ironman_gq]

a bore cut is any cut made into the tree starting with the tip of the bar and basically stabbing it into the tree unlike a normal cut where you start at the side of the tree and cut across it. It allows you to cut into the tree but only make a small opening and allows you to leave wood on both sides of the cut

 

[Jonny Quest]

I've come close a time or two but never hit it. Especially when ya run out of winch cable for an extra tall tree. This tree is not very tall so it won't be a problem on getting back far enough.

I like the portable winch method. I use a Ramsey Quick Mount 8,000 pound DC Winch. I attach a shackle to the receiver hitch end. Then I use chains or straps to tie to my anchor. Works pretty well but it can be a little cumbersome to haul around the portable winch and battery, but the truck stays out of harms way. Even with a strong winch, I'm pretty cautious with a big tree and a fair amount of lean.

 

[2dogs]

boaring is nice bit i find skillfull fan cutting and posting along with face gutting takes less time.


1. you gut the face at the same time as you are making your first face cut.
2. you can elimenate the boar by faning in and establishing a holding corner on one side of the tree while getting the wood that you dident get while face gutting. Then dog in on the other side and establish the other holding corner and fan till the tree is holding by two corners at the hinge and a post in the back. bring your saw arund back and fan one more time to kill the post and bye bye!


Or if the tree has any side lean you can just dutch it.....

Bad advice! You don't understand what a heavy head leaner is and how dangerous it is. I know you're just a kid out of high school but you should have enough sense to not give advice on topics you know nothing about.

Just Dutch it? What does that mean? A swing Dutchman, or a step Dutchman, or a kerf Dutchman. or a block Dutchman? I know that was alot of terms to throw at you but your post once again shows your ignorance of the topic. Oh and how much side lean can you compensate for on 200' tall 4' DBH tree?

 

[Turkeyslayer]

Also this one.

Felling Larger Trees with slight lean or with heavy tops.



The notch is made in the normal manner (1/3 dia. of tree).

Make corner cuts.

The number one cut is made as per the diagram, at the same height above the notch as a standard back cut.

The number two cut is made as per the diagram, at the same plane as cut number one.

The number three cut is made at the same plane as the former cuts, leaving the standard thickness of hinge.

I have found when using this technique one has to stay in the back cut a split second longer when the tree starts to fall, you dont want to severe your hinge wood but this method can lead to alot of fibre pull due to the center portion of the hinge being to large.

 

[2dogs]

"Still can't picture a bore cut yet"

perhaps because the term "bore cut" can have 2 applications. one is parallel to the hinge and is used to decrease barber chair, the other is perpendicular and is used to cut the heart out (in the middle of the face) to prevent fiber pulling. mills dont like fiber pull.

Yep. I bore nearly every tree right now using another application. That is I bore the tree perpendicular to the hinge to check for soundness. I am doing this because so many trees have rotten centers with just a rind of solid wood.

 

[056kid]

Bad advice! You don't understand what a heavy head leaner is and how dangerous it is. I know you're just a kid out of high school but you should have enough sense to not give advice on topics you know nothing about.

Just Dutch it? What does that mean? A swing Dutchman, or a step Dutchman, or a kerf Dutchman. or a block Dutchman? I know that was alot of terms to throw at you but your post once again shows your ignorance of the topic. Oh and how much side lean can you compensate for on 200' tall 4' DBH tree?

Hay old man I have been getting MY job done for the last few years without too many hitches I really dont want to get angry here but you have NO IEDA of my experience on this topic.

If a 100+ foot tall white oak on a 40 degree slope with a good 15 degree lean dosent classify as a head leaner then i am a moose in florida...

If a tree has side lean it can be "dutched" which one,ones would you THINK i am talking about 2dogs?


Or are you just a know it all old fart that thinks it couldent be possible for some young punk like me to know squat about cutting tumber?


I dont care what you think about my skills and technique but i WILL NOT have yoou call me ignorant based upon YOUR assesment of my text.




i am a young punk and you are an old frump.







Call me stupid, ha your funny old ass...