Hardy H4 OWB

[Wayned24]

Hello. First time poster here. Recently bought a home with a Hardy H4 OWB. Been running it for about 1 1/2 months (I think correctly). Water company called me Friday and said that my water usage went from 3,000 gallons/month to 11,000/month. I've noticed my burner is usually wet around the bottom, but I just always thought it was part of the process of heating with a boiler and the auto-fill feature. Do you guys think I have a leak that is causing me to use this much water? My low water light comes on almost every day, but I add literally about a gallon of water to it and it turns off. Like I said, I'm new to all of this so be gentle haha. Thanks!

 

[NSMaple1]

Yes.

Wetness isn't part of the process. Either is a low water light coming on every day - shouldn't have to need any water the whole winter. Or maybe only once or twice - certainly not every day.

You mention auto-fill, but also adding a gallon a day - so you're manually adding water, aside from whatever the auto-fill is doing?

If you don't have a pipe or fitting leak, your boiler might be shot.

 

[Wayned24]

Thanks for the response. My water fill float is at the very top of my tank. I feel like if I lose any water at all it turns on. The tank is almost always full still though. I'll call the repairman and hopefully it isn't something major.

Another problem I'm having is that the air coming from my vents in my house isn't very warm? My auxiliary heat will kick on frequently, but I thought the point of the burner was for it to provide the heat. i live in SE Ohio..It's been down to about 20 degrees a couple nights this year, but nothing awful. Should be heat be warmer coming from my vents? There is a majorly noticeable difference between the heat from my burner and the aux. heat. Thanks again.

 

[panolo]

You shouldn't be adding water with that frequency. Definitely have a leak somewhere.

I run a CB 550 edge and live in MN. Our BTU ratings are very similar and my house is set in the low 70's for temps. My backup heat never kicks on and I have not had a day this season where I have had to fill my firebox more than half. You are either losing a bunch of heat somewhere or have some sour settings. I'd check settings and see what the temp leaving the boiler is and what it is when it enters the exchanger in the house. Might give you an idea on where some of the heat is going.

 

[Wayned24]

Thank you. I'll look at it all when I get home from work. I really appreciate the help.

 

[NSMaple1]

Thanks for the response. My water fill float is at the very top of my tank. I feel like if I lose any water at all it turns on. The tank is almost always full still though. I'll call the repairman and hopefully it isn't something major.

Another problem I'm having is that the air coming from my vents in my house isn't very warm? My auxiliary heat will kick on frequently, but I thought the point of the burner was for it to provide the heat. i live in SE Ohio..It's been down to about 20 degrees a couple nights this year, but nothing awful. Should be heat be warmer coming from my vents? There is a majorly noticeable difference between the heat from my burner and the aux. heat. Thanks again.

Well if you have that much cold water coming into it all the time, then not much wonder it won't heat right. Without accurate temperature measuring at a lot of spots we can't tell what's going on though - along without knowing where the wet is coming from exactly. You can't find the source? Might take some rooting around - if a source can't be found quite easily that might mean curtains for your boiler, as most anything else should be able to be seen. Unless it's from your underground piping or something like that. Even if it isn't from your underground pipe, but the wet is getting into it - then that's another problem again. Your underground piping might also be next to not much good if its insulation is wet - some of that stuff had 2 strikes against it even when freshly installed and dry, but we also don't know what you have there.

 

[Wayned24]

I haven't taken the exterior off the tank to actually examine where the leak is coming from. I just see where it's wet. It's near the front to the right of my ash door. The concrete is always wet right there. I'm not even sure how to take the metal casing off to check for the leak. I might just have a pro come out.

 

[Wayned24]

This is what the back of my OWB looks like. I turned the heat from 165 to about 180.. does the rest of that look right to you guys? Do I have the correct lines opened up? Thanks.

 

[dave_dj1]

Yeah something is amiss. I would start by looking at the fittings where they enter and exit the boiler and the pipe if you can.
You may have a rust hole in the water jacket and that's going to suck but hopefully it will be fixable. Good luck.

Edit: You must have posted the pics while I was typing.
That all looks OK to me.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Hi There...

Your Hardy should not be taking on water daily. If you have a leak it should be easy to find. Either there is water around your Hardy or it is in your house. If you have found the leak and it is at your Hardy's tank, you will have to drain and weld.

Besides a leak in the tank, which could be the problem... there are two very good, possible reasons for your H4 to be taking on too much water and puddling around the outside of it...

1. The Domestic Hot Water (DHW) coil inside your tank has cracked and you are leaking DHW into your tank, causing it to overfill. If the furnace ever froze up from not being fired in the winter time this is a very real possibility. It is an easy fix if so but would require the outer skin being removed.

2. The float switch is faulty and not turning off the auto-fill solenoid despite the float in the full position. The easy test for this is to ensure the valve is turned off at the solenoid. This should be in the upper right hand corner of the H4. You can remove your evaporator stack and see the float. Push it down with a stick and you should be able to hear the switch working, clicking on and off the solenoid. If you cannot hear the clicking, you have a faulty switch.

Both the two scenarios above will cause your H4 to overfill and soak the surrounding area around it. If I were you, turn off the main feed to the Hardy and see if your problem dries up. If your water level holds you have almost found your problem. My Hardy takes on water about once every 4-6 days if you want to use that as a gauge.

Ok... as for your poor heat. Your H4 should be making a sauna out of your house so I will tell you now you are having an issue. I will assume your aqua-stat is reading around between 150--170 degrees...you can see the temp of your water from the back of your H4. If it isn't, your parameters can be adjusted by the thermostat on the back of the Hardy. It is the long, gray plastic box. If however your Hardy is at appropriate temp, the first thing you should do is look at and change your furnace filter inside your house. Also, check your heat exchanger in your duct-work to ensure it is not gummed up with fuzz, lint etc. Finally, check your Pex lines to ensure none are kinked or obstructed. On your heat exchanger you have two lines, in and out. When your Taco pump is running, go to your heat exchanger and feel both lines...there should be a noticeable temp difference between the two. That would be the temp of the water going into the exchanger, and then coming out once the heat is sent into your house. Check this situation out and give me an update. Depending on your findings will help me zero you in to your issue. Either way we will get this working.

Thanks

WCA

 

[Wayned24]

Wow.. first off let me just say thank you for taking the time to give me all of this advice. When I get daylight, I will check everything you suggested outside at my Hardy.

As for the heat exchanger, I’m not sure where to find that? You say it’s in my duct work? I’m attaching a picture of the two PVC pipes going into my furnace. Both are opened up. I don’t feel a temperature difference in either one. There is a hot copper pipe coming from my hot water heater, so I feel like the water coming from my burner is reaching my house hot. I really wish I could find the heat exchanger though. Is it usually close to the furnace? Once again thank you for all your help. I replaced the filter last week think that was the issue, but it still isn’t making it much warmer.

 

[Wayned24]

I’m also going to attach pictures of where my water lines run in to the hot water tank.. does this look right to everyone?

 

[Woodcutteranon]

You hot water tank appears to be hooked up properly specific to your T that goes out to the Hardy and the way your valves are thrown. In the morning, simply reverse all the valves as you see them and that should shut off the feed to the Hardy but still give you DHW in your house...

The heat exchanger is in the first picture you sent. It sits atop your forced air furnace. The installation has the water pipes protected by the PVC pipes so that will make it dificult to feel the pipes for heat. If you can remove the tin covering the heat exchanger you may be able to access the inlet and outlet.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

The valves circled in red are the ones you can reverse to kill the water feed to your Hardy. Do this in the morning and see if the ground around your Hardy dries up AND your water level maintains.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

Better yet. Leave your heat exchanger alone. Take your temperature readings at the red circles below. This is your in & out for your heat exchanger. There should be a noticeable difference to the touch in heat between the two when your furnace is running. That inlet pipe should be about the same temperature as the water in your Hardy's tank.

 

[Wayned24]

To the touch, those two pipes your circled feel the same to me. I’m assuming that’s not good.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

I just noticed in your pics that your valve to the solenoid feed is closed. IF you haven't touched this valve recently that leads me to believe you either have a leak in the tank or your DHW coil is cracked. You should hope for the DHW coil being cracked. Cheaper and easier to fix.

The fact this valve is closed would explain why you are manually filling your Hardy with a bucket of water. If you open this valve it will do it automatically whenever your red light comes on. For now, leave this valve alone and leave it as it appears in this pic. In the morning, reverse the three valves I have circled at your DHW tank. I have a feeling this will be the source of your problem. As NSMaple1 said above, your Hardy taking on all that cold water will certainly make your temps drop and your wood usage skyrocket.

 

[Wayned24]

I just noticed in your pics that your valve to the solenoid feed is closed. IF you haven't touched this valve recently that leads me to believe you either have a leak in the tank or your DHW coil is cracked. You should hope for the DHW coil being cracked. Cheaper and easier to fix.

The fact this valve is closed would explain why you are manually filling your Hardy with a bucket of water. If you open this valve it will do it automatically whenever your red light comes on. For now, leave this valve alone. In the morning, reverse the three valves I have circled at your DHW tank. I have a feeling this will be the source of your problem. As NSMaple1 said above, your Hardy taking on all that cold water will certainly make your temps drop and your wood usage skyrocket.

View attachment 619541

Thank you so much for your help. I will reverse the lines in the morning. I’m super frustrated. My electric bill was actually $140 HIGHER this month and I had the woodburner going all month.. like I said though, the AUX. heat kicks on frequently.

 

[Woodcutteranon]

PM me your email. I will send you my #. Feel free to call me tomorrow when you are into it. I can help.

 

[NSMaple1]

Just noticed you guys are in the same state. Cool coincidence. Within driving distance I wonder?

Quickly on above pics - that looks like an on-demand DHW setup? I don't see a circ on the DHW side? So there wouldn't be a temp difference in the boiler piping in & out of the HX if no DHW was being used - isn't that correct? And also with that arrangement - why would the DHW coil in the boiler be used? Just trying to figure things out - not a setup I've seen before.