Help with a mid-line loop

[SINGLE-JACK]

Often, I use a mid-line loop in rigging. I've had some (rare) trouble with the "lineman's loop" (alpine buterfly) under some directional load it has 'rolled' (tripple-checked, tied per http://www.animatedknots.com/alpine...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

I've been using the "bowline-on-a-bite" works great, easy to tie and un-tie, but it takes a lot of line.

Has anyone used the "perfection loop" (angler's loop)
http://www.animatedknots.com/perfec...og.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com(angler's loop)

Chapman's (p68) shows how to tie it in mid-line.

Any recommendations for what works best for a mid-line loop?

 

[asthesun]

Often, I use a mid-line loop in rigging. I've had some (rare) trouble with the "lineman's loop" (alpine buterfly) under some directional load it has 'rolled' (tripple-checked, tied per http://www.animatedknots.com/alpine...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com)

I've been using the "bowline-on-a-bite" works great, easy to tie and un-tie, but it takes a lot of line.

Has anyone used the "perfection loop" (angler's loop)
http://www.animatedknots.com/perfec...og.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com(angler's loop)

Chapman's (p68) shows how to tie it in mid-line.

Any recommendations for what works best for a mid-line loop?

looks good, never seen it before. cant see how you think bowline in the bite is more complicated or time-consuming than this tho

 

[tree md]

I like to use a prussic loop. You are able to slide it and adjust to where you need it when pulling. Works great.

 

[canopyboy]

I swear by the alpine butterfly. It takes only a second to tie, unties easily after being loaded, is one of the more efficient knots for maintaining line strength. I have never had one roll, although the knot takes two forms depending on whether you're pulling the two ends of the line in opposite directions, or together and opposite the pull on the loop. I supposed if you changed loading drastically it could roll in that sense, although since both forms are fine I don't see a problem.

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

knot

Just us less rope when tying the Bowline on a bite. The other knots I have used locked up under heavy loads. Under light load may be ok.

 

[pdqdl]

Try this for a mid-line knot. Fast, strong, reliable, and it never binds up so that you can't untie it. Must be dressed properly before loading, and works best when the loop is carrying a load. Not as good, may distort if both ends are loaded before the knot is tightened up.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=1187344&postcount=37

 

[buffalo bill]

mid line bowline

Rather than tie a bowline on the bight or a double bowline tie a mid-line bowline,

take the middle of the rope and make a loop with a single part of the line as if tying a normal bowline.

Take a bight or doubled section of rope below that loop and make a normal bowline treating that doubled bit as if it were a single line.

Confusing? a bit like tying the first part of a sheepshank then just follow through.

never comes undone and easy as to untie, not much rope used.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

bowline in the bite

looks good, never seen it before. cant see how you think bowline in the bite is more complicated or time-consuming than this tho

I DON'T "think bowline in the bite is more complicated or time-consuming." Actually, I use it a lot. It's, by far, the best when I need two mid-line loops. But, sometimes it requires too much line for a single mid-line loop.

Thanks asthesun! I'll continue using the bowline in the bite.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Prusik Loop

I like to use a prussic loop. You are able to slide it and adjust to where you need it when pulling. Works great.

The "Prusik Loop" is and excellent option. And can be added to a loaded bull rope easily without using any working line to tie-in.

Thanks tree md! I'll add some "bull" Prusiks to my kit today.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I tie the daisy chain bo'lin midline and it will unload without any problems.

I'd take a picture, but cannot find the mini-USB cable

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Alpine Butterfly (single lineman's loop)

I swear by the alpine butterfly. It takes only a second to tie, unties easily after being loaded, is one of the more efficient knots for maintaining line strength. I have never had one roll, although the knot takes two forms depending on whether you're pulling the two ends of the line in opposite directions, or together and opposite the pull on the loop. I supposed if you changed loading drastically it could roll in that sense, although since both forms are fine I don't see a problem.

Yeah, I mis-used the term "roll". It's "two forms" is what made me nervous. I depend on my mental picture of a knot to check its correctness. On a heavily loaded bull rope it's changing shape made me doubt the stability of the knot. Last night, I tried it in every loading possible and found that it could take as least 3 forms. In all the different forms, it still seems reliable.

Thanks canopyboy for restoring my confidence in a good-old knot.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Try this for a mid-line knot. Fast, strong, reliable, and it never binds up so that you can't untie it. Must be dressed properly before loading, and works best when the loop is carrying a load. Not as good, may distort if both ends are loaded before the knot is tightened up.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=1187344&postcount=37

Seems like a good mid-line loop. It REALLY requires a careful "dress & set" before using. I'll have to work with it a bit. It's the most compact mid-line knot so far.

Thanks pdqdl! Has it got a 'name'?

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

mid-line bowline

Rather than tie a bowline on the bight or a double bowline tie a mid-line bowline,

take the middle of the rope and make a loop with a single part of the line as if tying a normal bowline.

Take a bight or doubled section of rope below that loop and make a normal bowline treating that doubled bit as if it were a single line.

Confusing? a bit like tying the first part of a sheepshank then just follow through.

never comes undone and easy as to untie, not much rope used.

Finally got it tied right. It looks like another good mid-line loop. It also requires a careful "dress & set" before using. It looks like it could be turned into a double mid-line loop, also. I'll have to test it some more.

Thanks buffalo bill! Never seen it before.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Harness Loop

Try this for a mid-line knot. Fast, strong, reliable, and it never binds up so that you can't untie it. Must be dressed properly before loading, and works best when the loop is carrying a load. Not as good, may distort if both ends are loaded before the knot is tightened up.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=1187344&postcount=37

Seems like a good mid-line loop. It REALLY requires a careful "dress & set" before using. I'll have to work with it a bit. It's the most compact mid-line knot so far.

Thanks pdqdl! Has it got a 'name'?

Found the name: "Harness Loop" (ABOK, p190 #1050) or "Artillery Loop"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harness_loop
There's a warning on that link "Must have load, may slip unexpectedly under tension"

If I put a biner in the loop before re-tensioning the bull rope, it should be OK. So, be cautious!

Still like how compact the knot is.

 

[tree md]

I guess I should mention that you need to be careful with a prusik too as it can potentially slip on the line under load. That has not been a problem for me but I have read that it can slip under a heavy load.

Edit: And if you really want to get some MA going throw a micro pulley on it!

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Perfection Loop

Well, I found that the "Perfection Loop" does not like to be untied. "It is quite secure but it jams badly and is not suitable if the knot will need to be untied." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfection_loop
So, It's definitely out of the running.

 

[Metals406]

Try this for a mid-line knot. Fast, strong, reliable, and it never binds up so that you can't untie it. Must be dressed properly before loading, and works best when the loop is carrying a load. Not as good, may distort if both ends are loaded before the knot is tightened up.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=1187344&postcount=37

I like that one!.. Simple and fast. It's first step would do a cow hitch too.

 

[pdqdl]

Found the name: "Harness Loop" (ABOK, p190 #1050) or "Artillery Loop"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harness_loop
There's a warning on that link "Must have load, may slip unexpectedly under tension"

If I put a biner in the loop before re-tensioning the bull rope, it should be OK. So, be cautious!

Still like how compact the knot is.

Of course it will slip, since they did not set the knot properly! The photo's in Wikipedia may be a good match for how ABOK tied the knot, but that is not how I was taught and it will certainly not slip if you tie it this way:

Follow the diagram in Wikipedia as pictured, BUT...before you load the loop, pull the knot tight by holding the loop in one hand, and pull both ends of the rope in the opposite direction, sliding the knot tight as it pulls away from the loop. You will see the knot turn over 1/2 way, then bind down snug. NOW you can use it with almost complete confidence. (If you just load both ends of the rope, having never loaded the loop, it will still straighten back up.)

Tie it this way (properly?), load it well once on the loop, it is there until you want to untie it. This will hold with either tail of the rope loose, and not slip.


I noticed something cool about this knot tonight: it is nothing more than a slipped figure-8 knot. (tied the way it is shown in Wikipedia)

 

[tree md]

A question, how does the alpine butterfly compare to the standard butterfly for ease of untying after being loaded? I very seldom use the butterfly anymore to set up a Z line but sometimes I will for a quickie. I have never used the Alpine Butterfly before. Is it easier to untie?

 

[pdqdl]

I always thought it was the same knot. You mean there is a "butterfly" AND an "alpine butterfly" knot?