Homelite Chainsaws

[Hoggwood]

Next project. And the first time I'll have been into an xl-2/super 2. Extra low miles due to a broken pull cord. Mostly storage rash. I've been wanting to get one of these running for awhile now. 1977.

Everything is there, including gooey duckbill hanging off of the pressure line for tank. Took some head scratching to figure out how to get the muffler off. Shop manuals alluded to a single screw through and holding the (removable?) muffler cover. This cover is tacked on with welds. Managed to find a 5/32 allen cap head screw at the rear of the can through a small access hole punched in the center of the cover. Kinda like fishing in the dark. Piston and cylinder shine like new. Pulls over with a real thump. Great comp.

Hoping to pick away at it without too many hiccups. I welcome any advice/suggestions.

 

[ML12]

What have I got here? looks like a weird accelerator pump and then there is a tube going from the intake elbow down to the cylinder base that isn't just for impulse? Help!








Top end on this one is unfortunately quite scored, think I can save the cylinder though, anyone have experience with the aftermarket pistons (1050, 1130g etc) from ebay?

Also it needs crank seals, that's how it got wrecked im sure. I believe they are an inch sized seal, I measured last night, but does anyone have the sizes to confirm?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Next project. And the first time I'll have been into an xl-2/super 2.

Real nice specimen you have there! I have one in like new condition that I've not even tried to start. Came in a case like yours and still smells new.

Have one next in line on the bench that came in with the SXL in not quite as good o' condition. LOL Looks like it may come apart by itself if I let it sit there long enough. I did coincidentally run across a Leon video this morning that had one of these apart in about two minutes. Best tip was to look in the bottom of the oil tank for the sintered bronze tube from the vent arrangement if it's missing from the end of the line. Also that the throttle link to the carb will easily disengage at the trigger without having to remove the handle when pulling the engine out. Unfortunately on this one the dual trigger setup is bound up somehow and needs sorted out anyway..., among various other things. Should be fun.

And as can be seen in the background, the SXL is still a work in progress. Haven't quite figured out the best way to block off the intake for a leak check yet. Would certainly welcome any suggestions there.

​

Poor thing has been beat around hard as a "pallet saw". Nails? No problem!

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Also it needs crank seals, that's how it got wrecked im sure. I believe they are an inch sized seal, I measured last night, but does anyone have the sizes to confirm?

This is from a list compiled by several folks over time which covers quite a bit of territory. Perhaps one of the contributors can chime in with verification.
I believe this was current info as of 2017.

Homelite C/XP/1050/1130 Series

-F/W seal: 58308A 07021.
-PTO seal: 56256B SKF 7414.
-FW side bearing: 58190-S Aftermarket: 6203 C3.
-C and DIRECT DRIVE XP/1050 series PTO side bearing: 63043 Aftermarket: B-1210
-XP1100/1130/1130G GEAR DRIVE series PTO side bearing: 76167-S Aftermarket?

I'm also interested in any input on the carb as my 1050A uses the same arrangement. I rebuilt it, but something still doesn't seem quite right..., including my understanding of its operation.

I will say that the hose that goes down through the housing was a bear to get back on the elbow after being removed. Saw ran poorly before I rebuilt the carb due to aged diaphragms. Wasn't able to start it after the new kit and I think it may have something to do with the fitment of that hose. Been sitting on the shelf since.

​

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Also it needs crank seals, that's how it got wrecked im sure. I believe they are an inch sized seal, I measured last night, but does anyone have the sizes to confirm?

This is from a list compiled by several folks over time which covers quite a bit of territory. Perhaps one of the contributors can chime in with verification.
I believe this was current info as of 2017.

Homelite C/XP/1050/1130 Series

-F/W seal: 58308A 07021.
-PTO seal: 56256B SKF 7414.
-FW side bearing: 58190-S Aftermarket: 6203 C3.
-C and DIRECT DRIVE XP/1050 series PTO side bearing: 63043 Aftermarket: B-1210
-XP1100/1130/1130G GEAR DRIVE series PTO side bearing: 76167-S Aftermarket?

I'm also interested in any input on the carb as my 1050A uses the same arrangement. I rebuilt it, but something still doesn't seem quite right..., including my understanding of its operation.

I will say that the hose that goes down through the housing was a bear to get back on the elbow after being removed. Saw ran poorly before I rebuilt the carb due to aged diaphragms. Wasn't able to start it after the new kit and I think it may have something to do with the fitment of that hose. Been sitting on the shelf since.

View attachment 738742

View attachment 738743​

 

[ML12]

This is from a list compiled by several folks over time which covers quite a bit of territory. Perhaps one of the contributors can chime in with verification.
I believe this was current info as of 2017.

Homelite C/XP/1050/1130 Series

-F/W seal: 58308A 07021.
-PTO seal: 56256B SKF 7414.
-FW side bearing: 58190-S Aftermarket: 6203 C3.
-C and DIRECT DRIVE XP/1050 series PTO side bearing: 63043 Aftermarket: B-1210
-XP1100/1130/1130G GEAR DRIVE series PTO side bearing: 76167-S Aftermarket?

I'm also interested in any input on the carb as my 1050A uses the same arrangement. I rebuilt it, but something still doesn't seem quite right..., including my understanding of its operation.

I will say that the hose that goes down through the housing was a bear to get back on the elbow after being removed. Saw ran poorly before I rebuilt the carb due to aged diaphragms. Wasn't able to start it after the new kit and I think it may have something to do with the fitment of that hose. Been sitting on the shelf since.

View attachment 738742

View attachment 738743​

The SKF7414 number crosses to the dimensions I measured, but is generally unavailable (in Canada), I think 7417 is also equivalent, although it has a different elastomer (fluoroelastomer). Its the flywheel seal that I'm struggling with. It doesn't seem that there is a modern cross reference. At least not one with a garter spring. I think it checks out to 17mm x 23.8mm x 4mm. I am debating boring the housing out to accept a standard sized seal. (ie. 17x25x6)

I'm not even sure what the purpose of that hose is. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in. It seems like an air valve, like some of the pioneers had, but its different still. The IPL I have doesn't show it. The other piece is definitely an accelerator pump. I'm going to tear into it soon and take some photos. hopefully its in good shape. I'm not the first person to have ventured into the saw though, so who knows.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Dichtomatik 0609318TC looks like a replacement for 58308 (with garter spring) according to the attached chart courtesy of @undee70ss and the kind folks over at HoH. CR6130 looks to be the poor man's version.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

So I ended up using the handle itself as the intake block off approach and the internal muffler flange/support for the exhaust on the SXL. Not optimal, but worked. Found a very elusive leak from the PTO seal. Had me close to submerging the case, but rotating the crank in combination with enough soapy mix finally located it. Was one of those pesky seals that generally acted like a one way valve that closed with pressure but opened with vacuum. 'Course the more pressure applied, the tighter such a leak will seal. The key in these situations is to just use minimal pressure, not so much that it actually seals the leak. Think about inflating a new tubeless tire on a rim. Pump enough air while setting the bead and it seals and inflates. Not enough air and it'll just blow past the bead without enough pressure to seal. Same with crank seals that won't hold vac but will hold pressure..., and why a vacuum test is ALWAYS advisable to verify the integrity of crank seals..., old or new.

Nowthen, (and sorry for the lecture), a couple pics as usual. Was a little worried that the exhaust may not seal all the way around due to not using a solid plate and the bracket flexing along the thin sides but it held just fine. The rubber is pretty thick and I'm sure that helped. Using the handle was a little klunky but worked as well. I did acquire a set of block off plate templates over at HoH also. Only a few different plates cover nearly all the saws and I'm certainly going to make a few for those from some 1/4" aluminum stock I happen to have handy. HoH is a great resource for those who haven't ventured over. Quite a few familiar names there.

So now I'm in the hunt for seals, too. Can anyone confirm that the CR6130 and the Dic 0609318TC adequately replace the 58308?

​

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Good post. Cant confirm seals. How bout giving a link for the blockoff templates

 

[undee70ss]

Good post. Cant confirm seals. How bout giving a link for the blockoff templates

Try here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hwh0df5h1tmbxgm/Homelite crankcase sealing plates.pdf?dl=0

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

So about the ever-elusive suitable replacement seals for 58308/UP07021...

Will the ones I mentioned work without fitment issues or is there some fudging around required? And Tim, ( @fossil ), I noticed over at the trough you had success with these causing extreme jubilation in the barnyard. https://www.google.com/search?q=060...57.4384j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Any follow up on how they've proven to hold up?

I think it checks out to 17mm x 23.8mm x 4mm. I am debating boring the housing out to accept a standard sized seal. (ie. 17x25x6)

@ML12 if you're still referring to the 58308 above, I come up with .625 (15.875mm) x .937 (23.7998mm) x .188 (4.7752mm) The ones in the link above are rubber coated and come in at .625 x .938 x .188 but are said to sneak in. Perhaps Tim will shed some historical illumination. There's also this approach to at least get them started if they're a little stubborn... MM's Case Bore Chamfer for SKF Seals

If worse comes to worse there are a couple 58308's on the bay, but at 20 bux a pop plus shipping for 20 year old seals I'm considering that option as an absolute last resort. I'd experiment if it were my saw, but it isn't.

Any clarification on any of this will be tremendously appreciated.

 

[fossil]

So about the ever-elusive suitable replacement seals for 58308/UP07021...

Will the ones I mentioned work without fitment issues or is there some fudging around required? And Tim, ( @fossil ), I noticed over at the trough you had success with these causing extreme jubilation in the barnyard. https://www.google.com/search?q=060...57.4384j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Any follow up on how they've proven to hold up?



@ML12 if you're still referring to the 58308 above, I come up with .625 (15.875mm) x .937 (23.7998mm) x .188 (4.7752mm) The ones in the link above are rubber coated and come in at .625 x .938 x .188 but are said to sneak in. Perhaps Tim, will shed some historical illumination. There's also this approach to at least get them started if they're a little stubborn... MM's Case Bore Chamfer for SKF Seals

If worse comes to worse there are a couple 58308's on the bay, but at 20 bux a pop plus shipping for 20 year old seals I'm considering that option as an absolute last resort. I'd experiment if it were my saw, but it isn't.

Any clarification on any of this will be tremendously appreciated.

For case bore fit here are the specs for Timken (National) seals

Steel seal case diameter Nominal fit 0.005 ± 0.002
Rubber coated seals Nominal fit 0.008 ± 0.003

Don't ever pound in seals that are too tight in the case bore or you will likely have to disassemble the engine to knock it out from the rear.

The issue with the seals available that fit the case bore is that the ID for the shaft is too small.

The shaft is 0.656" dia and the seals are for a shaft diameter of 0.625 (I think one may be for 0.63") which makes it tight on the shaft.

Normal interference seal to shaft is between 0.040" to 0.050" so you would be up another 0.030 or so. It doesn't sound like much but it's very noticeable when installed

The downside of running a seal too tight is drag on the motor and that the seal will eventually wear a groove in the shaft.

Not sure about seal longevity but I'm guessing its not helping being too tight. I some guys that are running tight seals but I don't know how often they run the saw.

I did manage to find some 58308 seals some time ago and gave up looking.

As you did, it's always worth a look converting the inch sizes to metric sizes. I found a perfect fit for the 4200 - 8500 series and The large frame Macs are metric seals as well.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

So the TCM/Dic 0609318TC and CR6130 referenced in the major Homelite cross-ref list are erroneous? Haven't gone into detail on their specs. Just saw them listed prominently (and often in the case of the 6130) on that particular list.

 

[fossil]

The SKF7414 number crosses to the dimensions I measured, but is generally unavailable (in Canada), I think 7417 is also equivalent, although it has a different elastomer (fluoroelastomer). Its the flywheel seal that I'm struggling with. It doesn't seem that there is a modern cross reference. At least not one with a garter spring. I think it checks out to 17mm x 23.8mm x 4mm. I am debating boring the housing out to accept a standard sized seal. (ie. 17x25x6)

I'm not even sure what the purpose of that hose is. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in. It seems like an air valve, like some of the pioneers had, but its different still. The IPL I have doesn't show it. The other piece is definitely an accelerator pump. I'm going to tear into it soon and take some photos. hopefully its in good shape. I'm not the first person to have ventured into the saw though, so who knows.

I have found a few on that list to be wrong. I always measure the case bore and the shaft diameter before I commit to using one.

The SKF CR 7414 dimensions are 750" x 1.124" x .1875, SINGLE LIP, CRW1 I have never gad the need to look for a replacement for a 56256B

If that's the size you are looking for Timken (National) Specs as follows

Case bore 1.124" Seal OD 1.129" shaft size 0.75" seal width 0.187 https://www.motioncanada.ca/productDetail.jsp?sku=01317485

Or for a more conventional seal

Timken (National) 7750 https://www.motioncanada.ca/productDetail.jsp?sku=01312949

Fluoroelastomers are a high peformance seal lip material when it comes to gas and oil. They also are long lasting, can be subjected to much higher temps than nitrile (Buna), 400F vs 225F, and have good dry run life. I understand they are expensive but have no idea how much they are.
The common trade name for the material is Viton.

They are not made in many sizes.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Thanks for the input, Tim.

I hate to monopolize this thread, but am obviously not that well acquainted with the Homies yet. So here's what may yet be another stupid question:

How much vacuum should an SLX-AO case be reasonably expected to hold? I usually shoot for a solid 8 ~ 12 inHg indefinitely to declare a case tight. This case will hold steady for 60 ~ 90 seconds in the 4 ~ 5 inHg range before eventually leaking down, but will hold absolutely nothing beyond that.

 

[fossil]

Thanks for the input, Tim.

I hate to monopolize this thread, but am obviously not that well acquainted with the Homies yet. So here's what may yet be another stupid question:

How much vacuum should an SLX-AO case be reasonably expected to hold? I usually shoot for a solid 8 ~ 12 inHg indefinitely to declare a case tight. This case will hold steady for 60 ~ 90 seconds in the 4 ~ 5 inHg range before eventually leaking down, but will hold absolutely nothing beyond that.

I wouldn't worry about monopolizing the thread. Not much going on in the brand specific threads these days.

I like around 10 in hg.

How does it do on pressure?
If it leaks down under vac and pressure check the spacer between the reed block and saw case for cracks. They leak slowly.
I like the pressure and soapy water spray to find those leaks.

If it holds pressure well I would suspect the seals.

Sometimes I find the exhaust port is difficult to seal up as well.

I typically don't find the order 1970's - early 1980's units hold vacuum as well as some of the newer models. It may be just old gaskets and lots of gaskets.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Thanks again, Tim.

I covered my leak check setup and process pretty thoroughly a couple posts back and have it narrowed down to that 58308 seal. Was just wondering if maybe my expectations were a bit high for vac specs on the Homelites. I'll go with my gut and figure a new seal should hold 8 ~ 12 inHg for awhile..., at least long enough to reveal any other leaks that may not be evident now with the current leak.

And I just figured out that the seal is actually in the oil tank housing which is obviously the pto side of the crankcase itself. What's the best method for removing the seal? Just pry it out or pull the tank? Looks like a real bugger to get to with any real leverage to pry while still assembled to the cylinder. Looks too small to get a screw started, not mention maybe getting into the bore and creating a whole new problem with that method.

 

[fossil]

Thanks again, Tim.

I covered my leak check setup and process pretty thoroughly a couple posts back and have it narrowed down to that 58308 seal. Was just wondering if maybe my expectations were a bit high for vac specs on the Homelites. I'll go with my gut and figure a new seal should hold 8 ~ 12 inHg for awhile..., at least long enough to reveal any other leaks that may not be evident now with the current leak.

And I just figured out that the seal is actually in the oil tank housing which is obviously the pto side of the crankcase itself. What's the best method for removing the seal? Just pry it out or pull the tank? Looks like a real bugger to get to with any real leverage to pry while still assembled to the cylinder. Looks too small to get a screw started, not mention maybe getting into the bore and creating a whole new problem with that method.

Dimple the seal and drill a small hole and insert a small long screw, vice grips, a block of wood and a pry bar. Dimpling the seal loosens it up and makes it easier to remove as well.

Taking the drive case on those off involves stripping the saw down and removing the crankshaft which is a major pain in the butt.

I use a hand drill. The steel case on the seal should protect the case when drilling and if the hand drill rubs against the crank it won't do any damage as they are very hard steel.

Sending you a PM

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

PM received. Thanks.

Don't have anything small enough to drill a hole in such a thin seal safely. I do have one of the Lisle seal pullers that turned out to be pretty useless as each of the hooks broke the first time I used them. Been hangin' on the pegboard just takin' up space since. Decided to take a stab at fashioning a new style hook in one using a Dremel burr with a different approach to the angle and it worked like a charm. Wish I would have done this a long time ago!

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[svk]

Hi Guys, what is a non-running C-91 worth?

 

[sawfun]

Hi Guys, what is a non-running C-91 worth?

I dunno, I sold a nice c91g with new top end, nice 36" old Oregon bar and almost new chain for $350.