homemade rail set up help questions

[struggle]

I have doing a little milling with an alaskan mill using a fiberglass ladder (it sucks and not the most stable) I have a neighbor that can make me a square rail set up out of 1/8" square steel tubing and he will weld in supports every two feet with it being 12' total length for a dedicated rail ladder set up. Should be able to run 10' boards. Anything longer is not needed for my use and any logs bigger than that are to much trouble to move around my location.

Thoughts on how welding tabs so it can be screwed into log for support.

Also wondering how wide to make it if there is a more optimal width. My current rails are for up to I think 40" chainsaw bar. I was thinking total width 18-20" maybe wider. Thoughts?

Alum rails would be nice but the steel will be way more price reasonable.

 

[PhilB]

I use an aluminum ladder with good results. It's one with the highest load rating I could buy. It still needs shims midway of it's span to keep it from sagging. If you make your own be careful when welding to keep it from distorting. BobL has his bolted together, so no distortion.

 

[BobL]

Thoughts on how welding tabs so it can be screwed into log for support.

I prefer the rails to grab the log at the ends rather than screw the rails to the logs.
This is difficult to do with straight tubing and something relatively strong like Unistrut rails are needed
Like this.

Also wondering how wide to make it if there is a more optimal width.

Unless you have a fairly regular set log size then the best solution is to make them adjustable.
My rails are adjustable from about 6" to about 20" wide.
And I have two sets each 10ft long that can be joined to make a 16ft cut.
If I were making them again I would make one set 12 ft long and the other 8ft.

 

[Yaxyakalagalis]

I nail a 2x4 to each end of the log ala Will Malloff to support the ends of my ladder and then put in shim along the log, because i didn't have a board or screws when i started.

 

[struggle]

here is what my neighbor brought over. 1/8" 2x2" by 12' (2) steel and 2x2" by 4' angle iron for end pieces. Since the 12' tubes are solid all the way I'm wondering what would be best for attachment of end pieces to tubes so I can clear that area when the mill crosses over it obviously. There is little deflection in the tubes if I lean on them but was figuring like Bob^ did some type of thread rod for holding together setting width? Pictures of up close of you guys set the hardware much appreciated.

Getting this part of the mill set up will make this so much easier than using the twisty ladder I had

Sent from somewhere

 

[PhilB]

Struggle,
I saw this at grizzly.com. Part number: H8027. It may work for connecting the tubing to the end pieces or you could get your neighbor to fabricate something similar.

Phil

 

[struggle]

nieghbor just left a little while ago and I think we have come up with a pretty slick and relatively simple bracket system that will let me have all the adjustment I can need and then some. I say simple because he has a full machine shop so welding to his guys it is. Hopefully in the next couple of days he will get them made and I will post back with pictures on set up


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[BobL]

View attachment 396312
Phil

I have played around with these types of clamps including a pair of all steel sash clamps that are 6ft long on short logs. The problem with using these is that the two clamps must be made co-planar and doing that is not as easy as it sounds. Coplanarity can be established prior to placing them on the log by fixing two such clamps together with something like all thread rod. They work fine on regular shaped logs but on irregular shaped logs I found was the clamp faces were often not large enough to fully contact the ends of the logs.

 

[Yaxyakalagalis]

I realised I don't have any before cutting pictures of my setup, but here's one shot where you can (sort of) see what i was talking about. On the ground to the right is the top cut off, it has a 2x4 nailed to the edge, proud of the log surface, and the ladder rails sit on top. i then shim underneath the ladder at 2 places and nail a 6" long piece of 2x4 to either side of a rung to stop the ladder from moving. I also put two nails into the end 2x4's to keep the ladder from moving from side to side. In the end i can lift the top cut off holding the ladder it's that tight a bond with all the pieces.

After seeing your system with the box steel, i'm certain that will be much better, but i thought I'd post this anyway.

 

[struggle]

just saw neighbor and he said they would try to make the brackets today. I'm not getting my hopes up though as I don't seeing them getting it done that quick. I will post once he gets them to me.

 

[struggle]

Here are the clamps. I think this set up should work great. I still need to cut the cross angle iron down to size so my saw with current rails will clear it. There is and 1"/ 1/2" space between the clamp so that gives me room if I need to shim it to get it perfectly level. I will hopefully try it out tomorrow. I really doubt I will need to support the rails in the center as I can push down on them very hard and there is very little give. Way less than a ladder would ever have. They are as stiff and straight as a grizzles d ick.

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[BobL]

One thing you find out with CSM'ing is that chainsaw vide will slowly but surely rattle anything loose that has to clamp down so here are a couple of suggestions.

The first thing about log rails is for distance X on the photo to as small a distance as possible, as you may want the B&C to pass within 1/8" of the cross angle iron.

This means your bolt and the clamp are too long and should either be shortened as shown on the rhs of the photo (i.e. "change clamp to this")



The other problem is that your clamp shows nothing to clamp to the end of the log. So you will need bolts that pass through the vertical section of the cross angle iron and bite into the log. Like this - I call these "log clamping bolts".


However, if this is done the two bolts that hold your clip that attaches the angle iron to the log rails will not hold and the clip will rotate way from the log as the log clamping bolts are tightened. To prevent this rotation I show an alternate clip design in the first photo. The is essentially a metal sandwich that grabs the horizontal part of the angle.

Alternatively you could tek screw the angles into the log but I reckon my system is much quicker than waiting for a drill/driver, and don't you hate it when it run out of battery!

I reckon you will need some cross pieces between the log rails as the weight and vibe of the saw will splay these apart. I typically have my all thread cross pieces about 2 ft apart so that means at least 2 and preferably 3 of these will be needed.

It would not surprise me if the mill rattles one of the two bolts on the sides of the clips loose. It may pay to use longer bolts and an extra locking nut to make sure they don't come.

As you can probably tell I'm a belt and braces kinda bloke - others maybe happy with neither.

 

[betterbuilt]

I'd make the changes Bobl has recommended. All that metal hanging down there is gonna be a problem sooner rather then later. I also saw somewhere that grinding the bolts to a slight point stops them from vibrating loose. I think it was the panthermill guy that posted it.

Looks really heavy. I hope your logs are only a few miles from the truck.

Cheers.

 

[struggle]

the bolts pictured will be cut down. That was all I had here at this time. Weight isn't an issue as I can drive up to everything that gets milled. Plus the rails will put away for storage better than a ladder will as I already have a fiberglass one (don't want to buy a alum. one).The rails will get bolts to the log I just haven't cut them down yet or drilled them for that matter. I will take into consideration the clamps moving and will see how it goes on the first time using it. I told my wife I would have this log out of our driveway within a week and as of today I'm at a week so I have to get after it or else. What else is I don't know at this time.


Sent from somewhere

 

[struggle]

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[JS929]

Sent from somewhere

Nice looking wood man! How'd those rails work out? Was your chain new and get that loose after the cut? Either way....looking great!

 

[SDB777]

Was thinking about doing some steel tubed rails also....unistrut is way too expensive!

The last photo you showed in #15 thread, is it an optical illusion(the wavy left end of the log)?





Scott (nice saw/mill set-up) B