How to handle crotched blowdowns

[CNYCountry]

Not sure if this is the right forum, please move this if it's not...

I know blowdowns that have crotched themselves in other trees are inherently something to treat with great care but exactly how to go about dealing with them is not something I'm finding a lot of information on.

I did find something that advised cutting an open face on the bottom of the stem and then going through from the top to avoid barberchairing but I am wondering if I can get some clarification on that.

How far up the stem is this done, exactly what kind of open face (how deep and at what angles) and what else do I need to know?

 

[darkstar]

dangerous ... make sure you 2 or 3 saws

 

[onionman]

and or a good tractor

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Be ready to run like the dickens if you make a butt cut and change the way the tree is supported. Peole have been killed doing this. The tree can roll or flip back out without the security.

Get this book and study EVERYTHING in it: http://www.ddouglasdent.com/dent_books.htm

If I ever cut the butt out I tie off the butt with taglines to secure it as much as possible.

 

[Dadatwins]

Not sure if this is the right forum, please move this if it's not...

I know blowdowns that have crotched themselves in other trees are inherently something to treat with great care but exactly how to go about dealing with them is not something I'm finding a lot of information on.

I did find something that advised cutting an open face on the bottom of the stem and then going through from the top to avoid barberchairing but I am wondering if I can get some clarification on that.

How far up the stem is this done, exactly what kind of open face (how deep and at what angles) and what else do I need to know?

The only thing you need to know in this situation is to get out the Yellow Pages, or other local Telephone directory and a telephone and call a professional tree service that is licensed and insured for this type of work. As Tom said many folks have been injured or killed trying to attempt to remove storm damaged trees without proper training or equipment. If you are not 100% sure of what you are doing, get help, Please. :angel:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

As an arborist, I tend to treat these like I do a tree that fell on a house, that is, I'll climb above it, tie in and work the tips down to remove weight. then if it snaps and falls while I'm working, I'm out of the way.
The other tip is to cut a notch, just like you do when you drop a tree, where you want the tree to break. That way when she goes, it's a bit slower and more controlled. You have to figure out which way it wants to go, and then figure out what side of the log to put the notch, it may be the bottom, the side, or even the top.
That said, this is clearly the most dangerous type of tree work there is, hands down. Even the best tree workers need to be very, very careful. Definately call in a pro if you have the slightest doubt. Don't be afraid to use heavy equipment, and a good operator, that's what loggers do.

 

[darkstar]

yeah a tractor and 3 extra saws' and be ready to run' .make sure you swamp out the exit path .............. or better yet call in a tree dog........[.DANGER WILL ROBINSON ] :blob5:

 

[Ekka]

Sometimes if it's an uprooted tree ... you know, big swag of soil and roots sticking out of the ground and the trees on a lean caught up. Be aware that if you cut through the main trunk and relieve the weight of the canopy the trunk log section and root ball can fly up and sit back in the hole.

Watch your cuts close, really watch and see if that gap from the saw is opening or closing so you know the right direction the force is and which way to finish the cut.

If you can cut the trunk off, hook it up to something like a 4wd or tractor and pull it out of the other tree that would be safest.

 

[CNYCountry]

All advice heeded loud and clear.

I have ordered the book Tom mentioned, I have been meaning to anyway.

A wife's friend came by yesterday and looked around, a pro logger (runs his own harvester), and from a family we've known for years (trusted). I may just have him come, spend an hour, and hand cut everything that needs to be felled right now. Once they're down I can buck and limb safely.

I definitely need more experience and to watch and learn from someone who knows what they're doing before I'm going to try this myself.

 

[CNYCountry]

Get this book and study EVERYTHING in it: http://www.ddouglasdent.com/dent_books.htm

I ordered this on Monday right from ddouglasdent.com, and sent a check out immediately. I fully expected to be waiting for the check to clear and then wait for book shipping and that was fine.

I was surprised and delighted to find the book delivered Wednesday, 2 days after I ordered it, and much more so when I found that Mr. Dent had signed the book! Nice to have a good surprise like that once in a while!

 

[newb]

We just did a tree like that last week hanging towards lines. We used alot of rigging and two climbers to set it up. Tied off the bottom so it wouldn't kick out. Went up high for first tie off to lift it out of crotched tree, and then another rope to pull it away. We used the Mastadon rope pullers. Took about 1 hour to set up and another to get on the ground. I'd hate to see someone try and save a few bucks trying this with hardware store rope and a truck. Head the advise and call an arborist. Pete

 

[pmuscato]

I used Maas approach on several hung trees after Charley last year, I was surprized how many stayed up after I got the weight off the tops. With a TIP above the hazard it helps your confidence. But there all different, be safe. Tractor would be nice but 95% of the jobs were tight, backyard, over stuff.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Dealing with leaners or hangups is sometimes easier than dealing with a tree standing on the stump.
Directional control is the main consideration as it safety. Since the tree is already half horizontal, gravity takes over much sooner after the kerfs are placed and the remaining holding wood breaks or is severed. Placing a kerf in the top about 1/3 deep first at the proper angle then finishing off with an upper cut at the same angle causes both butt piece and crown to kick away from operator. The operator should always be on the uphill side of the tree.
The following picture is a leaner I made while looking for a poplar to slice and dice into one inch cookies.
I have literally dealt with 1000's of leaners in a commercial application in the woods and recieved no surprises nor injuries. Knock on wood.
John

 

[Chucky]

Hey CNYCountry,

Funny, I was just up your neck of the woods two weeks ago doing some tree work and ran into a similar situation myself. It was a nice little camp on the slow part of Woodhill creek NE of Forestport, up Meyers Hill Rd.

One of the takedowns was a tricky Red Maple leaning just barely over a corner of the camp roof, so I spiked up and set a tag line (see Mike Maas's post) about 2/3 to the top, and ran it through a higher crotch in an adjacent tree, then to a wrap around another tree for the homeowner to tend.

But when I made the butt cut to fell the tree (bored through the middle behind the undercut to relieve tension before the final backcut), the top of it hung up in another tree and rolled squarely over the camp. Then when I made an uppercut in the top compression wood of the tree, then a lower cut into the tension wood of the tree, like what gypologger did in his pic, it came crashing down more than I expected and stopped one foot from the camp roof!

I had to climb onto the roof with the HO's cheezy ladder and luckily when I topped the tree, the top fell away from the camp, and I admit I had no idea which way it'd go. Then it was simply a matter of pushing the remaining suspended tree away from the roof and letting the HO lower it to the ground.

I have to say the unpredictability factor of hung-up trees is far too large for my satisfaction, and not something I'd want to repeat often. And, the horrification factor on the HO's face when a tree comes inches from destroying his camp, is neither something I'd like to replicate on a regular basis. Still, the devil in me can't resist relishing that look on his face ... when it all ends up all good.

-Tim, the treeman, Taylor

 

[newb]

Just a thought, but don't lumberjacks use gravity to take down trees, and arborists rely more on rigging and control?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Yes, arborists use skill and knowledge, while loggers use dumb luck.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

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